The Watchtower Meets the Pleiadeans

early_watch_tower_coverA few people have asked why I included the Jehovah’s Witnesses in my list of groups with strange extraterrestrial doctrines in Exo-Vaticana.  First, it is essential to recognize that the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe themselves to be the only true religion and have consistently taught that all others are of the devil. That includes evangelicals of all stripes. A lesser known but pertinent fact is that the founders of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society held beliefs similar to modern UFO cults. We submit two examples from their officially sanctioned literature. The JW cult began as a splinter group when founder Charles Taze Russell (1852–1916) broke ties with the Adventists in the wake of several date setting failures. His following grew as his publishing arm “Zion’s Watch Tower Tract Society” spread his strange doctrines far and wide. In Thy Kingdom Come(1891), the third of a seven volume series, he argues that Jehovah resides on a star called Alcyone in the Pleiades star cluster located in the constellation Taurus. Arguing more like an Ancient Astronaut Theorist than a theologian, he wrote concerning the center of the cosmos:

Astronomers are not yet fully agreed as to what or where that center is. Some, however, believe that they have found the direction of it to be the Pleiades, and particularly Alcyone, the central one of the renowned Pleiadic stars. To the distinguished German astronomer, Prof. J. H. Maedler, belongs the honor of having made this discovery. Alcyone, then, as far as science has been able to perceive, would seem to be ‘the midnight throne’ in which the whole system of gravitation has its central seat, and from which the Almighty governs his universe.[1]

Taken at face value, this drastically diminishes divine omnipresence to a specific location within the material universe, an idea far removed from biblical Christianity which holds that God transcends His material creation being present everywhere at the same time (Ps. 139:7-9). Russell also denied the doctrine of the trinity. Interestingly, the Pleiades cluster is the claimed home of the so-called Nordic aliens popularized by contactees like “Billy” Eduard Albert Meier who started the FIGU cult. Meier, infamous for his hoaxed flying saucer photographs, issues antichristian rants coupled with new age teachings dictated by Semjase, an alleged Pleiadean.[2] The correlation between the Pleiades and diverse cult groups suggests a common spiritual source albeit not space aliens. Russell was also particularly fond of Egyptian symbolism such as the winged sun disk, an emblem tracing deep into the Old Kingdom (26 BC) as the mark of Horus, a deity believed to incarnate as Pharaoh.

JW sun disc

Winged Sun Disk in J.W. Literature


Nimrud Stele (Egypt 9th century BC)

Certainly, the biblical narrative paints Pharaoh as an idolatrous oppressor of God’s people who hard heartedly opposed Moses. In fact, God specifically associates him with Satan, the great dragon (Eze 29:3). From Egypt, the Pharaohic symbol spread to Mesopotamia and even as far as Persia and became more generally associated with divinity, royalty and power in the Ancient Near East. Mysteriously, it has also been discovered in the records of ancient cultures as far away as South America and Australia. Thus, it meets Carl Jung’s definition of a culturally transcendent archetype. In the middle ages, it appears in alchemical works and grimoires. Accordingly, its popularity with nineteenth century occultists suggests Russell was no stranger to their works. In fact, just prior to his publication, the winged-sun-disk was featured in magical works by the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, Helena Blavatsky’s Theosophical Society, the Rosicrucian Order, and Freemasonry. This makes for strange bedfellows indeed.

Given all the above, the winged sun disk was an extremely odd pretense to Bible study. Employing a syncretic hermeneutic, he justified it with a metaphor from Malachi, “the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings” (4:2) a prophecy to be fulfilled by Christ as “the light of the world” (John 8:12). Nevertheless, its occult connotations suggest this application was reckless at best and, at worst, indicative of a syncretistic occultism. Considering his bizarre Great Pyramid teachings, the weight of the evidence supports the latter.


Russell’s Pyramid Memorial Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Most cult-apologetics texts discuss Russell’s failed predictions that Christ would return in 1874 then revised to 1914. However, it is lesser known they were based on the Great Pyramid, a monument he believed to hold the key to prophecy. Based on various internal measurements and convoluted mathematics he originally arrived at 1874 as the dawn of the tribulation:

 Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1874 was the chronological beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation — no, nor ever shall be afterward. And thus it will be noted that this “Witness” fully corroborates the Bible testimony on this subject…” [3]

As time passed uneventfully, he manipulated a few of the numbers and moved the date forward:

Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1914 will be the beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation — no, nor ever shall be afterward. And thus it will be noted that this “Witness” fully corroborates the’ Bible testimony on this subject…” [4]

Given his prayers were directed toward Alcyone, a Pleiadic star, alongside his obsession with all things Egyptian, one might conclude Russell was subject to same deceiving spirits who inspire UFO cults and alien contactees. In fact, one might argue that Charles Taze Russell is a spiritual ancestor to the modern Pleiadean contactee. A few years after the 1914 date passed, Russell died. A new excuse we needed as 1914 came and went.

Another fanciful rationale for the downfield creep of the eschatological goal posts helped smooth the transition while Joseph Franklin Rutherford (1869-1942) picked up the pieces. A highly educated and charismatic leader, he played a primary role in their doctrinal development and growth. It was under Rutherford’s leadership that the smallish fringe group grew into the incorporated juggernaut called “The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society” known commonly as “Jehovah’s Witnesses.” However, his prodigious success as a religious huckster far outmatched any alleged competence in biblical exegesis. Retaining his mentor’s characteristically syncretic hermeneutic, from Job 38:31 and 2 Chronicles 6:21 he also derived a Pleiadean theology:

 The constellation of the Pleiades is a small one compared with others which scientific instruments disclose to the wondering eyes of man. But the greatness in size of other stars or planets is small when compared to the Pleiades in importance, because the Pleiades is the place of the eternal throne of God. [5]

It boggles the mind to assess the damage inflicted upon the divine attributes of Christian orthodoxy but suffice it to say biblical theology does not lead to the conclusion that the triune God can be spatially located within creation. Think of it this way, because God created all things (including the Pleiades), He is necessarily external to that creation, although he may enter into it as he so chooses.

[1] Charles Taze Russell, Thy Kingdom Come, vol. III of Millennial Dawn series, (Allegheny, PA: Tower Publishing, 1891), 327.

[2] “The Pleiadean Ishwish Semjase’s: Spiritual Teachings” (accessed 11/29/2012).

[3] Charles Taze Russell, Thy Kingdom Come, Studies In The Scriptures, vol. 3, 1904 edition.

[4] Charles Taze Russell, Thy Kingdom Come, Studies In The Scriptures, vol. 3, 1910 edition.

[5] J. F. Rutherford, Reconciliation, 1928, p. 14.



About Cris Putnam
Logos Apologia is the ministry of Cris D. Putnam. The mission of Logos Apologia is to show that logic, science, history and faith are complementary, not contradictory and to bring that life-changing truth to everybody who wants to know.


  1. Bob says:

    This was writen in 1891? A great deal has changed since then including understanding of the bible. Once understanding of scripture occurs they correct it. 1891? Give me a break—————-

  2. Horace says:

    This is truly the find of the century…….no, greatest find in the history of man!!!!!!!!!

    Where do I find this great group of intelligent people???????

  3. Ricken says:

    Jehovah’s Witnesses do not think of themselves as a “religion” but people subscribing to the “truth” of God’s word. Show me others that follow so closely with such a good understanding and without deviance from the bible.
    These texts you post here were the beginning and have gathered a great nation of people to come to have a loving understanding of God.
    It is sad that you make it negative in its nature.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      JWs do not really follow the Bible but rather twist the Bible and change key passages to deny the deity of Christ. They follow their own made up book. The first chapter of John is a good example the New World translation has completely altered it to fit their Arianism. Also Colossians 1:16-17 which I explain in detail here.

      • Ricken says:

        God the father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. The trinity is a man made conception. Jesus is not God. Jesus is the SON of God.
        You may as well have said that God committed suicide if he was Jesus.

        And as for 1914…..these were the beginnings of the pangs of distress. If anyone cannot see that the end is near they have their head in the sand.

        I guess we will have to agree to disagree on these matters.

  4. steven dubberly says:

    Once again mainstream Christianity professes the false dogma of the Trinity to be true….When will it end?

    The creed of Jesus is the Shema….NOT the Athanasian Creed of popes and Bennie Hinn.

    • Mike says:

      Jehovah’s Witnesses do not believe in the trinity.

      I grew up JW and I am telling you that they absolutely do not believe in the trinity. I left them and later found some interesting facts, though. Russel was a 33rd degree Mason. Most religions on this planet relating to Jesus, were all started or later controlled by them (Mormans, 7th Day., Occultic Jews, Catholics, Zionist Christians, etc) who are all off-shoots of “The Builders” or Nephilim. I believe it’s all Saturn worship, and that Satan/Saturn/Satarn/Santa are the same – hence the halo depiction in all the paintings.

      These Peladian teaching you speak of were not taught in the Kingdom Hall nor did they every appear in any Watchtower or Awake that I read in the years I was a part of them from ’76 to ’85 (grades 5-11-ish) – and I was devout, gave talks (preached) on scripture, door to door, etc… Perhaps this was taught in Brooklyn Headquarters for the ‘Chosen Ones’ , the 144,000 they believe will serve as priests and kings – and the only ones that partake of the wine and unleavened bread at the Memorial of the Last Passover – the only holiday the JW’s celebrate.

      Many truths are taught by them though, like the cross being from Babylon (before Egypt,) not too worship idols or men or demons, Christmas, Easter, are pagan holidays…etc

      I’m telling you this is only a small part of a bigger religious conspiracy. The Catholic Church seems to be at the center of it all. And the British Israel, Zionism. There have been several attempts at this global takeover, Including 1666, and events leading up to it… like Jesuit agent Guy Fawkes (V for Vendetta movie is propaganda) and the Gunpowder Plot (Also called Jesuit Treason) of 1605 to kill King James I (yeah, that King James) and Parliament, who were blocking their efforts…. Most all roads lead to Rome… Setting up the New Jerusalem for their new world order.

      Here’s a clue for you… Also, on Mt Graham, Az the Vatican, NASA, Italy, Germany, etc…) are involved in a series of three telescopes there. One using infra-red and special new lenses acronym-ed LUCIFER lense for spotting and tracking their alien Armada. When I lived in Tucson, 20 years ago, I can tell you that the road leading up to Mt Graham was State Rt 666. (The only road to the mt) and Indian legends spoke of giants and a great serpent who resided there and gave them knowledge, but demanded sacrifice for it. Space ships, spirits, etc… Research that and Vilnius. Another name for a filter and curiously the name of a city integral to the 1666 plot was a city in Lithuania by the same name.. which was touted as the New Jerusalem and openly compared to Babylon. Something to get you started.

      I belong to no denomination and will not. I pray and have been given ‘eyes to see’ my whole life. Jesus said to know the truth and the truth will set you free. If you want to know what JW’s really believe (not saying most of this article is not right on) go to their website. You can read something without buying into it can’t you? Be a critical thinker. There’s truth in all religion, that is why it’s so dangerous and a blueprint for bondage. Not saying every religion or preacher is part of it. Looks like Protestants are their enemy, but in reality it’s any true believer of Jesus being the Son of the Almighty Creator of All Things, who died for our sins. There is no name given in the bible for him in the bible, which says no one knows the date and time of the return, but the father (ironically a mantra for the modern day JWs.).

      Vatican is currently ‘leaking’ info telling us that the aliens are either the angels and real creators or ‘unfallen’ and ‘spiritually superior’ guides to help us and they are coming… and they are reptillian. See: Father Coyne (one of ’em) and for truth Father Malachi Martin who left Jesuits and wrote many books exposing them, which were never refuted by the Vatican.

      The real reason the Pope resigned and new Pope is Black Pope (Jesuit):

      With love,

      • Jose says:

        Wow. That was a load of information and I couldn’t has said it better myself. Thank you Mike.

  5. cyberpriest says:

    The Triniterian doctrine as it stands with catholics is no different to that of protestants.
    I do not abide by it. because I cannot understand it. and faith is not without Knowledge.
    However; I make it very clear that Jesus is the divine Son of God and not an angel, that the Holy Spirit is also of divine nature with the attribute of God’s power.
    The concept of ‘God the father, God the son, and God the holy spirit’ is not scriptural, but a Babylonian trinitarian belief contrary to scripture.

    These scriptures below need to be pondered and prayed for their revealed truth.

    “By the word of the Lord the heavens were made”………. Psalms33:6

    “For He spoke and it was done”………. Psalm33:9

    The ‘word’ of the lord in those verses is the very ‘breath of His mouth’, It is that which God ‘said’ In the creation account of Genesis.

    It is that word that became flesh Jn1:1 by the same Spirit that was moving over the surface of the waters Gen1:2 Lk1:35

    The Lord said unto Moses “I the Lord God of Israel is One” Deut6:4 Not three. Jesus Himself said it in Mk12:29

    The problem with theology is that It Questions the word of God to attain answers, a devilish scheme with its source in the Garden.

  6. Anon says:

    In 1914 the beginning of the WW1 which took peace from the entire globe, certainly did ring in an unprecedented time of difficulty for the Earth, and it is not over yet, but getting worse with each passing day.

    It will soon be like toe days of Noah, so this argument is not valid.

  7. Life says:

    Not to defend the JW’s, but there were evangelical christians who believed the Orion Nebula was the abode of God, or perhaps of his Divine Son, already in the 1700′s. It’s not at all uncommon that Christians believe the paradise resides somewhere in space. The idea of heaven as a non-dimensional existence is a conception modern Christianity has borrowed from occultism (and gnosticism) and is not supported by the Word of God. That JW’s picked the Pleiades is a bit funny though, as the Book of Enoch shows that the Pleiades was the place where the descended angels were bound:


    • cyberpriest says:

      We are being told that the Book of Enoch is valid and a lost book of the Bible!
      There are so many obvious flaws with this ‘alleged’ missing book of God’s Word.
      It is clear to me that someone copied from the Bible and wrote this garbage.
      The same type of thing can be readily observed in the Qur’an. (It is of a foreign source and a different spirit)

      I do not believe that Enoch, who lived during the time period of Genesis, wrote this manuscript.
      Evidently the King James translators didn’t either, and for good reason.

      The Devil is working relentlessly to corrupt God’s Word, as he has been doing since the Garden of Eden, when he caused Eve to doubt God’s Word by throwing His light (interpretation upon it)
      Satan is so shrewd that he even tried his scheme on our Lord by misinterpreting the Scriptures in Matthew4:1-10.
      IWe are in great apostate times, the Word of God is under attack like never before and the book of Enoch is serving that purpose.

      • Life says:

        The Book of Enoch is not a part of the Bible, but it was one of the holy and inspired prophetic scriptures of the ancient jews and first christians. It was quoted by the apostle Jude and by Jesus himself, and referred to by Peter and Paul. The christians who came after the apostles read it and quoted it, as Barnabas, Clement, Tertullian and many others, up until the 4th century.

        It is online here:

        • Cris Putnam says:


          The problem with Enoch is that its authorship is in question. Scholars do not believe Enoch really wrote the whole thing but rather an anonymous second century BC Jew. The ancient Jews did not include it in their cannon for that reason. It is actually broken into several books and they are not likely by the same author, the book of the Watchers might be authentic as it is what Jude quotes. The rest is dubious and has various factual and historical problems.

          • Life says:

            You totally missed the point with what I wrote about the Book of Enoch. Whoever wrote it, and I believe Enoch did, reflects the view among the Jews 2000+ years ago, that the corrupt angels were bound to the Pleiades. It’s in the Book of Watchers, chapters 18-21. That’s why it is a bit funny that the JW’s chose the Pleiades. And Billy Meier too.

          • Cris Putnam says:

            Agreed it reflects the 2nd temple period Jewish view, I saw some discussion below about how it should have been in the cannon as well so I was addressing that too. I agree that the pleadian connection is amusing 🙂 good point.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      The idea of heaven as a non-dimensional existence is a conception modern Christianity has borrowed from occultism (and gnosticism) and is not supported by the Word of God.

      Nonsense; “For thus says the One who is high and lifted up, who inhabits eternity…” (Is 57:15a)
      Who inhabits eternity – that is not bound by space time.

      Jesus said “He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.”(Jn 8:23)

      When he says “world” the Greek term is kosmos. The idea is transcendence.

      • Life says:

        Of course God the Father lives outside space and time. But the heaven we talk about is the one where the angels and the saved will live. Three-dimensional beings cannot live outside space and time. The heaven and the heavenly paradise are places where there is time and dimensions. Created beings (and things) haven’t got divine properties, and cannot “inhabit eternity”.

        You are deep into gnosticism.

        “Jesus said “He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.”(Jn 8:23) When he says “world” the Greek term is kosmos. The idea is transcendence.”

        Do you believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus?

        • Cris Putnam says:

          Of course I believe in the resurrection but he was also able to appear in rooms with locked doors so he wasn’t exactly bound by conventional physical laws and dimensionality. Your accusation of gnosticism is absurd.

          Of course God the Father lives outside space and time. But the heaven we talk about is the one where the angels and the saved will live. Three-dimensional beings cannot live outside space and time.

          Actually heaven is where God the Father dwells and angels seem to be able to alternate between pure spirit and physical. Jesus said, “For a spirit does not have flesh and bones…”(Lk 24:39) and also “God is spirit…”(Jn 4:24) It is clear that we live apart from physical bodies until the resurrection of dead which is after Jesus return. “..we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.”(2 Co 5:8) At the resurrection we will be on earth (Rev 20) not heaven. So your contention that heaven is physical is not at all biblical.

          • Life says:

            It was not so much an accusation as an observation. I’ve been there too. We are not aware of how influenced christianity have been by gnostic views. I’ve studied this subject, the physicality of heaven/paradise, for about 20 years, and I have no doubt it is a place somewhere in space.

            At the resurrection we will be both on earth, and in the heavenly city. A resurrection body is not a planetary body, it’s an interstellar body, able to travel far distances. We don’t need light bodies to plant fig trees. Now there are three heavens (actually I think there are heavens within those heavens too, as the OT says heavens of heavens) – the first heavens, the second heavens, and the third heavens. I’m convinced these are the heavenly spheres, the earth’s atmosphere, the solar system, and the outer cosmos. The heavenly paradise, described in Rev. 7:9, has plants. It has physical, 3d properties. On the other hand, Solomon says that not even the heavens of heavens can contain God. So there must be different places, paradise is not the real abode of God the Father, but he is present there, as he is going to be present on earth. God can live on a planet, without taking away his eternal properties.

            Paul was taken to paradise, perhaps bodily, he wasn’t sure. But that means he did think it was possible to be in paradise in a physical, even deadly body. Enoch was taken bodily to God. Elijah too.

            If you are familiar with the concept of “two powers in Heaven”, it will be quite easy to see that God the Father is the God person who is spirit, and God the Son is the God person who (always) manifests bodily, as the Angel of the Lord, even from the creation (see Hebr. chap. 1).

            That Jesus and angels can “go through walls” doesn’t mean they are shapeless. The spiritual, glorified body has a form, a shape, which means it is 3-dimensional (at the least). Such a body can’t be squeezed into a 1, 2 or non-dimensional existence.

          • Cris Putnam says:

            I think of those places as extra-dimensional rather than within our four dimensional space time. If you believe in creation ex nhilo then there was a time when the triune God existed but our universe did not. This means he transcends our universe and is outside of it. He couldn’t be within it before he created it, so there is more. Also the problem with viewing “God the Son is the God person who (always) manifests bodily” is the incarnation which implies he gave something up. Specifically: “who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.”(Php 2:6–7) If he always manifested bodily this makes little sense.

            Theologian Millard Erickson:

            With God, however, the question of whereness or location is not applicable. God is the one who brought space (and time) into being. He was before there was space. He cannot be localized at a particular point. There can be no plotting of his location on a set of coordinates. This seems to be a function of his immateriality or spirituality. There is no physical body to be located at a particular place. Consider here Paul’s statement that God does not dwell in man-made shrines, because he is the Lord of heaven and earth; he made the world and everything in it (Acts 17:24–25).

            Another aspect of God’s infinity in terms of space is that there is no place where he cannot be found. We are here facing the tension between the immanence of God (he is everywhere) and his transcendence (he is not anywhere). The point here is that nowhere within the creation is God inaccessible. Jeremiah quotes God as saying, “Am I only a God nearby, … and not a God far away?” (Jer. 23:23). The implication seems to be that being a God at hand does not preclude his being afar off as well. He fills the whole heaven and earth (v. 24). Thus, we cannot hide “in secret places” where we cannot be seen. God speaks of heaven as his throne and the earth as his footstool; the idea that humans can confine God by building him a dwelling place is, then, sheer folly. The psalmist found that he could not flee from the presence of God—wherever the psalmist went, God would be there (Ps. 139:7–12). Whether the psalmist ascended to heaven or made his bed in Sheol, God would be there. Jesus carried this concept a step further. In giving the Great Commission, he commanded his disciples to go as witnesses everywhere, even to the end of the earth, and he would be with them to the end of the age (Matt. 28:19–20; Acts 1:8). Thus, he in effect indicated that he is not limited either by space or by time.

            Here as in so many other respects there is a sharp contrast between God and the false gods. It is clearly seen in the contest between Elijah and the priests of Baal on Mount Carmel (1 Kings 18:20–40). One of the taunts Elijah hurled at his opponents when Baal failed to answer was that perhaps he was on a journey (v. 27). If Baal was off somewhere else, he could not also be there to send down fire. Jehovah, however, does not have this problem. He can be in countless places and involved with many different situations simultaneously.

            Millard J. Erickson, Christian Theology., 2nd ed. (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1998), 299–300.

          • Life says:

            I have always wondered about that verse, being in the “form” of God. As God is outside space and time, how can he have a form? So I understand it as this “form” is the divine Angel of the Lord, in which he was equal to the Father and himself the Creator, which Jesus laid aside in the incarnation.

            What I am trying to get through is that for created beings to be able to see God, he has to step down in one way or another, into the creation. We can’t come to him, so he must come to us. I include the heavenly paradise in that, and all those throne room scenes we see in the Bible. Those are 3d rooms, (with planetary properties), although in a higher, non corrupted state than the earth. There are heavenly scenes where humans are present.

            I don’t think time before the creation is possible as God created time together with the universe. I don’t think “outside” the universe is possible either, nor “under” or “behind” or “beyond”. It is almost as if God came to be at the same moment he started to create. At least seen from our perspective.

            The belief that there were some kind of spiritual world before the creation of this universe, is indeed a gnostic conception.

            (Not an accusation, just an observation.)

  8. brianw says:

    God does exist outside of this universe. a good way to understand this is a videogame……imagine a character in a video game comes to life…for example mario comes to life. But he is in the created video game universe thats created for him. The creators of him are humans and humans made an entire world for mario and entire universe with planets and everything. humans that made that for mario dont live in any of that we live in our own world. The same goes for God. atoms are gods pixels and this whole existence we have and the entire infinite universe was created for us humans. This of course is why satan became so jealous this was all made for you and me not angels.

    of course why the universe was made infinite is because adam and eve were made to live forever and the plan from the beginning was for adam and eve and his offspring to spread the garden of eden worldwide and eventually….as adam and eve and all their offspring never dying the human family eventually will spread to other planets as god got them ready. and it was up to man to seed all these planets worshipping and loving god and turning all planets into beautiful edens….but then butthead lucifer has to challenge gods authority and so you had him wanting to put adam and eve to the test. and so eden died out and thorns and thistles and dying at 120 years old is what we have….until jesus restores things then “the meek shall inherit the earth” and gods plan can continue.

  9. Paul says:

    With regard to the nature of God, the picture as I understand it is this: God is three persons, Father, Son & Holy Spirit — The Son has voluntarily and gladly subordinated Himself to The Father, and The Holy Spirit is Himself subordinate to The Son (He is now sent by The Son, just as The Son is sent by the Father). The Father inhabits Eternity (that is, He sits ‘outside’ of time) and knows the end from the beginning, revealing things to The Son, who in turn reveals things to believers by The Spirit. Although all three persons in the Godhead are equally divine, they have seen fit to establish a hierarchy of authority, or a chain of command.

    The Son condescended to become a man and to dwell amongst us (and thus, though still God, neverthless limited Himself in some sense). Indeed, He is still a man — the first glorified man — and now sits in Heaven at the right hand of The Father. He has a body which, though glorified and incorruptible, is nonetheless physical, and thus inhabits the physical universe. However, this body is seemingly able to materialise and dematerialise in our plane of existence, which implies that such a body is part of a broader physical reality — that it is not confined to a four-dimensional physical reality as our own bodies are, but is of a higher dimensionality (>5). Moreover, the activities of angels (good & bad) and the behaviour of paranormal phenomena such as UFOs points to their own physical hyperdimensionality.

    …Hence the entire created physical world is one of at least five dimensions (i.e. one temporal and at least four spatial), of which our own world is a four-dimensional subset. Somewhere outside our four-dimensional reality, but still within the broader physical Creation, reside the glorified Christ and the Host of Heaven (both good & bad) and indeed Heaven itself. …And outside of this hyperdimensional Cosmos is Eternity where God The Father resides.

    Added to this, there is an incorporeal world — a spirit world — in which our spirits, the spirits of the departed, the spirits of angelic beings (and their hybrid offspring), and indeed the Spirit of God Himself exist. This world straddles the boundary between Eternity and Creation (since although God inhabits Eternity and is both outside and distinct from His Creation, He is Himself a Spirit). And there is interaction between the spiritual and the physical worlds, such that events in the spiritual world have physical consequences and events in the physical world have spiritual consequences.

    One commenter above said that Cris was “deep into gnosticism”. I don’t see this myself. A Gnostic would argue that the physical is inherently evil and the spiritual good (or at the very least that the physical is illusory). The Biblical Christian viewpoint is the ancient Jewish view that the physical is not inherently evil (nor illusory) but rather that it is good but cursed, and that one day it will be redeemed. …And that when believers die, they won’t go to Heaven to float about like ghosts forever, but will receive physical bodies at the Resurrection of the Dead, and will live on a physical Earth with a physical Lord Jesus as their King. I imagine Cris would agree (broadly speaking) with this!

    • jaz says:

      When I read the Book of Revelation I only see Two worlds..(The Natural and The Spiritual) I do not reckon that the Spiritual is in some other constellation at all, but that it is another Sphere Beyond the veil so to speak. Hence the glory of heaven is seen by Apostle John whilst on Patmos.. The transfiguration with Jesus Moses and Elijah on the mount.

      Occult practitioners break through to the other side and communicate with the spirit world Something forbidden by God. UFO’s don’t travel the various systems. That is what they want us to believe. They just break through into the natural realm just like apparitions and orbs.

  10. cyberpriest says:

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God” Jn1:1,2
    The Apostle does not say ‘In the beginning was Jesus’ Nor does he say, ‘in the beginning was the Son’

    let us understand that the Apostle is Referring to the Jesus that he has come to Know in the Flesh, and that prior to the His incarnation as the Son he was the Logos word spoken by God “By the word of the Lord the heavens were made”………. Psalms33:6

    “all things came into being through Him” 1Jn1:3
    Again, the Apostle is using the present tense by referring to the Jesus that he knew in the flesh and that it is He which is responsible for the creation. For it was God the Father almighty that said in the Gen account of creation “For He spoke and it was done”………. Psalm33:9

    The parallelism of the spoken word by God in the Gen1:3 “God said ,let there be Light, is readily seen in Jn1:5 “And the light (Jesus as the incarnate Word) shines in the darkness.

    One has to understand the rhetoric of the Apostles thinking as he expresses the divine Truth.

  11. terry says:

    Our forefathers were masons…much of the cabal are masons…mason connection to the Vatican…mason connection to JW’s and Mormans….
    AND references to Alcyone…did you know the Hoover Dam has a star map of Alcyone- in plain sight?….and those are two interesting Lucifarian figures guarding the place! The cabal/masons/religions attach MUCH significance to Alcyone…HMMM

  12. Life says:

    Another thing to ponder. Most view Hades, the prison of the spirits, as a place inside the earth. Thus they give this spiritual existence a geographical address, in this 3d universe. So why is it so hard to do the same with the heavenly Paradise? Why must Paradise be “outside” the universe, when Hades isn’t?

    • jaz says:

      Here is whatTertullian (c. 160 – c. 225) says; making an exception only for the martyrs, argued that the souls of the dead go down beneath the earth, and will go up to the sky (heaven) only at the end of the world: “You must suppose Hades to be a subterranean region, and keep at arm’s length those who are too proud to believe that the souls of the faithful deserve a place in the lower regions … How, indeed, shall the soul mount up to heaven, where Christ is already sitting at the Father’s right hand, when as yet the archangel’s trumpet has not been heard by the command of God, when as yet those whom the coming of the Lord is to find on the earth, have not been caught up into the air to meet Him at His coming, in company with the dead in Christ, who shall be the first to arise? … The sole key to unlock Paradise is your own life’s blood.

      • Life says:

        Well that’s an interesting quote from Wikipedia, but it’s not an answer to my question.

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