Reply to Rob Skiba on the Denial of the Personhood of the Holy Spirit

trinityMatthew 28:19: “Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” reveals two essential facts about the nature of God: 1) The singular form of “name” indicates that God is one, and that His nature is singular (one divine essence); and 2) Within this one God are three distinct persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, something given especially strong emphasis in the original Greek: “τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος” with the three recurring definite articles “τοῦ” before Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This orthodox biblical understanding of God’s triune nature has recently come under attack from someone within my sphere of influence.

Rob Skiba is the co-founder of King’s Gate Media and the author the non-fiction book, Babylon Rising: And The First Shall Be Last. I had a friendly relationship with him until some of his theological positions raised serious concerns. When I confronted Mr. Skiba about his theological assertions he first denied being a teacher. He asserts he is merely “asking questions.” He has no theological education or proficiency in biblical languages that I am aware of. But he not only represents himself as an authority, he has published Bible studies like Wisdom From The Torah Book 1: Genesis. and he is listed as a teacher at a Hebrew Roots Movement event here.  He has a large following and his arguments are fair game for critique. My purpose is to dissect his strongest argument and show why it leads to a false conclusion.

The previous post on this website concerning the Holy Spirit was prompted by my ongoing debate with Skiba in a Facebook thread here.  If you bother to read through it, it will be clear that he is doing a lot more than asking questions. At this stage, his cards are on the table and he is very clearly denying the Trinity and even characterizing the classical formula (one God in three persons) as a heresy. The following is Rob Skiba’s recent response to my defense of majority view of the Trinity (one God in three persons).

Your “majority view” is the very definition of absolute heresy (I don’t care how many have had it, nor for how long) because it of necessity requires a literal view of the Holy Spirit as a third PERSON in the Godhead. For that to be true, Matthew 1:18-20 requires a belief that Jesus was NOT the only begotten of the Father, but rather of the “person” Holy Spirit. You people will never own up to it (convenient to just ignore it), but the fact remains, your doctrine removes the Father from being just that – because according to the standard model, He was not the “person” who impregnated Mary, the Holy Spirit was.  source

The display of hubris is astounding. His strongest argument against the personhood of the Holy Spirit is as follows:

1)                  Jesus is described as “the only begotten of the Father” (Jn 1:14, KJV)

2)                   Matthew 1:18 gives the Holy Spirit the role of impregnating Mary. “…she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.”(Mt 1:18)

3)                   If the Holy Spirit is person then Jesus cannot be begotten of the Father.

Therefore, “one God in three persons” must be false.

The alleged problem between Matthew 1:18 and the doctrine of the Trinity reveals a basic misunderstanding concerning, “only begotten.” This archaic translation found in the King James Version contributes to his confusion and is a favorite of those like the Jehovah’s Witnesses who assert Jesus is a created being.  The Greek word monogenēs, properly means “one of a kind, unique.”

Here is a scholarly Greek lexicon entry:

58.52 μονογενής, ές: pertaining to what is unique in the sense of being the only one of the same kind or class—‘unique, only.’ τὸν υἱὸν τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν ‘he gave his only Son’ Jn 3:16; τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἀπέσταλκεν ὁ θεός ‘God sent his only Son’ 1 Jn 4:9; τὸν μονογενῆ προσέφερεν ὁ τὰς ἐπαγγελίας ἀναδεξάμενος ‘he who had received the promises presented his only son’ or ‘… was ready to offer his only son’ He 11:17. Abraham, of course, did have another son, Ishmael, and later sons by Keturah, but Isaac was a unique son in that he was a son born as the result of certain promises made by God. Accordingly, he could be called a μονογενής son, since he was the only one of his kind.[1]

It is more properly rendered “the one and only from the Father.” Modern translations have clarified and corrected the English for greater accuracy.

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.(Jn 1:14, ESV)

“And the Word became flesh and took up residence among us, and we saw his glory, glory as of the one and only from the Father, full of grace and truth.(Jn 1:14, LEB)

Jesus is the “Son of God,” not in the sense of being born (see John 1:3), but in the sense of being a Son who is exactly like his Father in all attributes, and in the sense of having a Father-Son relationship with God the Father.

But Jesus was the unique son of the Father eternally before the incarnation. Jesus refers to his preexistence in his famous High Priestly Prayer: “And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed” (Jn 17:5). Like with Abraham’s son Isaac the term μονογενής is not about his physical birth but rather his status.

Interestingly, this discussion brings to mind Psalm 2 which states: “I will tell of the decree: The Lord said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you.” (Ps 2:7)  In Hebrew the term used in yalad which generally does imply birth. However, employing a hermeneutic of allowing scripture to interpret scripture, the Apostle Paul clarified the meaning of begotten in Psalm 2:

“this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second Psalm, “ ‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you.’ And as for the fact that he raised him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, he has spoken in this way, “ ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.’”(Ac 13:33–34)

According to Paul, Jesus was begotten of the Father at the resurrection.  I wonder if Rob will now admit his error?



[1] Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 590.

About Cris Putnam
Logos Apologia is the ministry of Cris D. Putnam. The mission of Logos Apologia is to show that logic, science, history and faith are complementary, not contradictory and to bring that life-changing truth to everybody who wants to know.

Comments

  1. Dear Sir,

    I have a question for you.

    Is Yeshua G-d? i.e. YHWH?

  2. pete says:

    Excellent points Cris. Not denying that the doctrine of the Trinity is the easiest concept to wrap your mind around (because we are singular, finite, beings, limited to four dimensions), it is an essential one to believe and trust. It is the nature of the God of our Bible. To not understand that as an unbeliever is expected. To not fully comprehend it at salvation is/can be expected. To proclaim yourself a teacher, and go around planting ‘SEEDS’ of doubt into other believers minds, is willful, rebellious, heresy.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      It amazed me that someone like Rob –with no theological study–can simply declare the trinity “heresy” and assert his opinion based on a superficial reading of an English translation…. 2000 years of scholarship overturned by Rob Skiba? the arrogance is astounding.

    • Lahoma Roebuck says:

      Great example of love. Let Rob work out what he thinks. He never proclaimed himself anything. Mocking his ambition of SEED? Is this scholarly? I am not a smart woman but I can see the bitterness from here. God loves you and also Rob. You are his brother and he is yours. Love doesn’t come in the form of a hammer to the head does it?

  3. Bob B says:

    Yeshua is indeed YHVH.

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made…14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.”

    And He said in the beginning, “Let US make man in OUR image.”

    The confusion as I see it is that The Word came and lived as a man. Living as the second Adam He called God His Father and prayed to “God”. He is ‘the only-begotten’ in the sense that God took on flesh. The Spirit is not begotten or born of the flesh. Jesus is ‘the only begotten Son of God’ meaning there is no other human that can make this claim. Jesus is God’s “Firstborn” and “only-begotten Son” because His humanity was conceived and had a beginning. But in eternity He was “The Word”. Because He was the Lamb of God from the foundation of the world, He was also the Son of God from the foundation of the world. In the beginning they were One and yet Three. But since “The Word” became flesh we now see God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are Three and yet One.

    • Shema Israel! Have you heard of this? It teaches that YHWH is ONE not three. How can this be? A simple thing called being able to be present in more than one place at a time. With MAN this is impossible, but with YHWH ALL things are possible.

    • Furthermore the Apostle Paul not once mentions the Ruach (Holy Spirit) as a separate entity.

    • jaz says:

      Here is something to ponder:

      Why don’t you all lay your theology aside and Listen up!

      “By the word of the lord the heavens were made, and by -the breath of His mouth- all their hosts” Psalms33:6

      “For He spoke and it was done; He commanded and it stood fast Psalms33:9

      There is no shadow of a doubt that these verses by the Psalmist confirm the Gen1 account of creation wherein God -said- and it was done.

      It is true is it not, that the -word- which was in the beginning Jn1:1 is the very ‘breath of God’s mouth’ Psalms33:6 which He spake the creation into being.

      That word is not detached as a separate -person/entity/angel- from God. It is that which God spoke from His mouth and from His very being (His breath)
      For the Word spoken in Gen1 is “alive and active” The word that sustains all things, It brought forth Light Gen1:3
      It is that Word which also became Flesh and dwelt among us as the ‘light’ of Men Jn1:4

      It is in that context that we need to understand Jn1:1-3
      So; Jesus in the Flesh as He is known to the Apostle was the word (Logos) in the beginning which was with God. By Him Jesus who was that spoken Word by which all things came into being Jn1:3 Gen1:3
      We need to understand the rhetoric of the Apostle’s words.

      There was no Jesus the son of God until after the word became flesh… “behold you will conceive in the womb and bear a Son, and you shall name Him Jesus……And will be called the Son of the most High” Lk1:31,32
      It was when The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary Lk1:35 that the Word of God became Flesh.
      Therefore; in the beginning there was only God and His Spirit moving over the waters and the “breath of His mouth” Gen1:2
      Is Jesus deity? Most definitely! For God and His word are One never to pass away.

      • Reg says:

        Jesus the Man…contained Deity…that Deity was the Distributable Spirit of the Living God…and not another person. A Person cannot be Poured out…but Gods Distributable Spirit is like Water,Oil or Fire that focuses His Presence in the personal spirit of Jesus. This is why Jesus is the Only One who can Baptize someone in the Holy Spirit of His Father <

  4. Bob B says:

    The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ (The Son), and the love of God (The Father), and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all. Amen. 2 Corinthians 13:14

    Yes, let us emphasize the Oneness of God manifested as Elohim a plural title for EL used by Moses.

  5. Beth says:

    I don’t know Rob Skiba, but if he is denying the person of the Holy Spirit, I fear that if he does not turn, at some point he will come to denying the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ as well. In my experience that often is the destination where the ideas of the HR movement terminate.

    • Chuckles says:

      You’re absolutely right about that, Beth. I saw that happening to one individual (at least) who was denying the person-hood of the Holy Spirit in an earlier thread. Heresy begets heresy.

    • RJRansomed says:

      Beth-
      That is just patently untrue…unless of course you are speaking of the Jesus that was born on Christmas day and rose again on Easter Sunday…then you may have a point. I’m sensing, in the Ruach, a lot of anti-Semitism here. Meanwhile, the foolish virgins reject the true essence of Messiah Yahshua and His holy convocations (rehearsals) and are even offended by His Name and His commandments. The modern day Church is so full of paganism and Gnosticism that I think there should be a break in all of these accusations of heresy amongst the brethren. It is more hear-say than wisdom. Straining out the gnats and swallowing camels.
      The adversary must love all of the backbiting and accusations. We are so willing to do his bidding.

      • Cris Putnam says:

        RJ – denial of the trinity is clear cut heresy. This not a mere accusation I have Rob Skiba’s statements typed my his own hand with his name on them. I have Russ Houck’s book specifically denying the triune God of scripture. These men are fronting a new cult. It’s not personal, it’s a matter of fact.

  6. David Lowe says:

    Absolutely great post, Cris. The best part was this completely correct point:

    The alleged problem between Matthew 1:18 and the doctrine of the Trinity reveals a basic misunderstanding concerning, “only begotten.” This archaic translation found in the King James Version contributes to his confusion and is a favorite of those like the Jehovah’s Witnesses who assert Jesus is a created being. The Greek word monogenēs, properly means “one of a kind, unique.”

    Yes, “only begotten” is KJV confusion. The correct translation into English, as you state, is “one of a kind.” The NET version, which I really love, renders it as “the one and only” and translates the verse as follows:

    1:14 Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory – the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father.

  7. Having just come into the facts here, HandleBullying will respond briefly here:

    When it comes to heresy, the “kingpin of all heresies” is “Trinitarian Heresy”. But the most recent problem for the church regarding the Holy Spirit has not been the denial of personhood, it has been the multiplying assertions of the “feminine exclusive” to traits of the Holy Spirit.

    If we want to understand why witchcraft has SO EASILY just walked into the front pews of churches around the world, it is because the order of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit dynamic of the “Father sending the Son who sent the Spirit” has been suppressed by the apparent church “fathers” of our current generation … who simply seem to be playing on “Ahab’s spectrum” of protecting the “currencies of Jezebel”

    In the last twenty years, probably the most outstanding is represented by this denial of “Trinitarian Order” which is really a coded way of denying witchcraft exists in the church, or anything else which might be a problem for “change agents” in church.

    The personhood of the Holy Spirit IS not nothing, make no mistake. But is often hand in hand with promoting a “quietly disordered Trinity” … or a Trinity without rank and headship … making way for Jezebel’s assertions about church and marriage.

    Is the person of the Holy Spirit more nebulous, harder to define than Christ who became flesh … who became a man once and for all time?

    The Holy Spirit is represented as “tongues of fire”, a “wind”, a “dove” … and also the Lord.

    And let’s not forget the “Ministry of Angels” where the work of the Lord is often the one and same as the work of Angels.

    Will comment further on facebook. CC.

    • Further to the “nebulous” factor of the Holy Spirit

      We all know the subtext to the comment above is the influence of the New Age and even George Lucas’ “Use The Force, Luke” mantra of Star Wars.

      And given Rob Skiba’s background in film content is whether this features.

      Where we can lock down heresies with the Jehovah’s Witness’ and Mormons regarding the divinity of Christ, is it a great deal harder with the Holy Spirit to lock down heresies.

      Initial thoughts is yes, it IS harder. CC

    • Cris Putnam says:

      Christo – check out my latest post, Rob’s mentor Russ Houck makes Rob’s theology seem almost sound.

  8. Sorry one more point about the Messianic Movement

    HandleBullying is aware of the Messianic Movements willingness to play “word games”.

    Whilst apparently seeming “forceful” about using the Hebrew form “Yeshua” (despite the great Commission affirming the preaching into other languages including english) – and other Hebrew designations for God’s title – the movement has apparently declared war on much of Paul in it’s recent revivals.

    Regardless of whether or not Rob Skiba is doing this … that any who practice “judaizing of Gentiles” are practicing witchcraft (Gal).

    And you will notice a great deal of provocation from apparent “Gentile Messianic Christians” playing it by trying to draw out debate on Facebook threads doing it.

    Grace means grace, and word games are a line in the sand where the right call is one thing.

    Whether Rob HAS done this, I will try to determine.

    As to how dangerous it is in the “End Times Community” ? Yes, it is dangerous. Yes. No matter who it is. CC.

  9. Hi Cris…why do we overcomplicate things……It’s a simple as 123…or Proverb 1:23
    Pro 1:23 Turn at my warning; behold, I will pour out my Spirit to you; I will make my words known to you.
    Joel 2:28 And it shall be afterward, I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy; your old men shall dream dreams; your young men shall see visions.
    Act 2:17 “And it shall be in the last days, says God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.

    Poured out is a key phrase.

    Gods Spirit is everywhere as in every Atom…and can also be “poured out” like water or oil or Designated Light..but still be the SAME Person of God …and not another Person…

    The “Him” God speaks about is… “His Distributable Spirit” and it became Distributable or “Poured Out” when God First Spoke… and said “Let their be Light” and that Light/Word came to Live permanently from Conception.. in One Person…Jesus …Gods Son.

    After Jesus Resurrection He Breathed that same Spirit into His followers…and that same Spirit brought Gifts to those who believed in Jesus at Pentecost.

    IOW Jesus Baptized His followers into the Spirit Gifts of His Father

    • Bob B says:

      God is NOT in every atom. That is pantheism.

      • Reg says:

        What does Omnipresent mean to you?
        To me …in the sense that God spoke everything into existence… His energy is still in Everything…and He can call back every Atom to Himself when He rolls up the Fabric of this Universe like a Scroll <

    • pete says:

      “And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven. Luke 12:10

      So anyone who blasphemes against a force?

      • Reg says:

        I never said anything about a Force….God distributable Spirit is Gods Voice or Word given to us as words of Wisdom or Knowledge or Discernment.or Conviction for Correction….can a Person be poured out like water or oil….or Fire or a Voice…only the Distributable Spirit of God can do that…..no other person need apply <

        • Untimely here, but the questions raised at the StrangeFire conference certainly have increased the blatancy of the matters which have been much more easily suppressed.

          “Where the wind blows” is a phrase which comes to mind regarding locking down the Holy Spirit to the pneumatology involved.

          Blasphemy of the spirit I believe is cut and dried … but is closely associated with cultural hostility towards how revival can impact people and churches and cities.

          But one thing’s for sure … even if the Benny Hinn’s of the world are all fake … it’s best not to worry yourself and speak beyond yourself. Because the Holy Spirit will always respond to those who are willing.

          Even if the instrument isn’t particularly agreeable. CC.

  10. Reg says:

    Act 13:37 But He whom God raised again saw no corruption.
    Jesus body was the only one who’s body did not rot in the Ground…..Enoch and Elijah were taken ..but either died in 70AD or will die in the near future at Armageddon <

  11. Rehg says:

    BTW..I do believe in
    The Apostles’ Creed and the Holy Spirit led Catholic (Universal) Church…and it says nothing about a Trinity or a third person,or God the Son…its Jesus Christ, Gods only Son…..I believe in the Holy Spirit as Gods Distributable Spirit…not another person….One Spirit and One Person called God…is more than Enough to get the Job Done….<

    The Apostles’ Creed
    I believe in God the Father, Almighty,
    Maker of heaven and earth.
    And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord,
    Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary,
    Suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried.
    He descended into hell.
    The third day he rose again from the dead.
    He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty.
    From thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
    I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church,
    The communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins,
    The resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.
    Amen.

  12. Debra Walker says:

    Rob is a researcher and is asking questions.
    Is it forbidden to ask questions and being a brother in Christ how should we treat one another.

    Revelations 12:10

    10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

    “Now have come the salvation and the power
    and the kingdom of our God,
    and the authority of his Messiah.
    For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
    who accuses them before our God day and night,
    has been hurled down.

    The bible is clear about who the accuser of the brethren is the question I have for you is are you working with the accuser. He works iniquity. In other words, Jesus tells us to love one another. Was Peter perfect in his understanding at all times. And yet Jesus loved him didn’t accuse him of heresy.

    When we come into agreement with the wicked one against the brethren we grieve the Holyspirit. Why is that ?? Because this agreement this iniquity becomes a stumbling block to your brothers and sisters in Christ. Jesus who is the author and finisher of our faith and does not condemn the brethren is busy with the Holyspirit raising and maturing Christians. When fellow Christians condemn other Christians they are working iniquity and coming into agreement with Revelations 12:10.

    We must love one another in Christ. We must pray for the brethren Ephesians 6:
    Putting on the armor of God. I have confidence in Jesus the author and finisher of put faith that he who loves the brethren more than any of us will keep them on track or get you on track. Jesus is our lord he loves us and is not offended by our questions. God is not offended in our quest for Truth. So why condemn a brother for searching for it and questioning. He is correct in that there is too much paganism in the church and it is not in the form of what gender the Holyspirit is mentioned in.. The deception is far worse then that we must repent for agreeing with the enemy against the brethren. We are to obey what Jesus commands us to do read all of John 13.

    His love is the power to salvation we are to walk in that love.

    All of John 13
    John 13:35
    34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

  13. Debra Walker says:

    I have one more thought.. I have listened to many DVDs on Rob Skiba’s research. And I read the thread on Facebook. I don’t see a denial of the Holy Spirit here. And to judge a man based on one sentence one word is not God. I will say this if what he has said I heresey then tell me please because I am angry with how the church is entrenched with paganism. I learned over the summer how 12/25 is Nimrods birth oh and Easter celebrates the Goddess of Fertility and yet the church catholic as well as mainstream Christianity follows along with Easter Basket in hand. This to me is heresey!!! And why all you theological leaders secretly worship the pagan gods while proclaiming Jesus as Lord. My friend if you worship beside the Luciferians on 12/25 do not fool yourself into believing that you have surrendered to His lordship while knowing that these were all pagan holidays.

    You are helping to support the Luciferian Agenda when you oh along with these holidays. I sat in churches every year and not one pastor spoke out against the pagan holidays that they so obediently follow. And you want to reference witches to Holyspirit in feminine form and yet you celebrate their holidays Christians.

    I am outraged at this truth I learned through Rob. I live in DC and see the pagan idols all around… Where are the true Christians ??? Oh yes. Tearing one another apart on Facebook over one word said.

    These are those who work iniquity the ones that Jesus says I knew you not depart from me workers of iniquity. Jesus says multiple times let no man deceive you and yet I was deceived the church is deceived we are called to come out of Babylon. Do you even begin to know what that means?? The illuminati Federal reserve bank on your obedience to these lies. Wake up we have far worse problems then the one word you will judge from Rob Skiba’s mouth. The church the body of believers need to repent and renounce our fellowship with paganism and come out of Babylon.. And stop working iniquity against brothers in Christ. We should be evangelizing and sharing the Gospel of Christ everyday in our walk. Asking Him to teach us how to walk in His love making prayer on behalf of other believers read Ephesians 6. This is how we should be living building up the body rebuking the wiles of the enemy that seeks to destroy us. Not coming into agreement with the wicked one but praying and binding the dark forces over each other.

    • No Debra, you’re too “fast and loose” here. I’ve already challenged and posited to Cris whether there’s a possibility this is too much regarding a stray public questioning.

      We all will tend to shrink back to double check if we meant what we said, and what will determine this is time. Possibly 12-18 months. Cooler heads, and a confirmation down the line. Obviously Cris is stronger, and

      But what you’re listing here are narrative forms of attack towards Rome, Constantine and the unjustification of Paul’s letters, finally, as part of the the Canon of Scripture.

      And whilst you, personally, may not have any suspicion about Rob undoing Paul’s letters – e.g.. Galations and “Judaizing Gentiles being witchcraft” – those of the Hebrew Roots Movement, and some of the Christian Messianic Movement, will have you believe english, Constantine – and Paul – is simply a derivative of the corrupt Roman culture.

      Meaning that by dancing on Christmas and Easter as a pagan tribute somehow proves the point. And that we all must dump english, learn Hebrew and load everyone else up with these forms. And carry ourselves as orthodox Hebrews.

      This is not the gospel of grace, this is a usurping of grace. And it’s much, much bigger than Cris, Rob or anyone else.

      A true believer has Christmas and Easter Sunday and Monday every day of the year. And like worship, the hypocrisy is not coming to Him everyday … and just waiting for a public spectacle to justify it.

      You say you the live in DC amongst all the Masonic/ Illuminati/ Pantheon monuments.

      Coming out from babylon, “Come out from her, my people” is about three things: love, power and a sound mind.

      What you’re saying here is right: “Asking Him to teach us how to walk in His love making prayer on behalf of other believers read Ephesians 6. This is how we should be living building up the body rebuking the wiles of the enemy that seeks to destroy us. Not coming into agreement with the wicked one but praying and binding the dark forces over each other.”

      But Paul and Peter had this argument settled – and it was a real contention Debra …. not some dispute over theological oneupmanship. And Peter jumped the gun, and settled down later … but it took time.

      Some will not settle down though … and will become more hardcore … and will need to be confronted. Cris says it’s not a question … it’s a fact. But it’s not about either of them. It’s about you and me and everyone listening. CC.

      • Debra Walker says:

        Clearly, you objectify a woman’s descenting opinion by making a lewd put down as indicated in your first sentence. I forgive your lewd insult brother in Christ if that is what you really are? The last thing I am is fast or loose.. I suggest that you get saved, born again then maybe you will see the error in your ways and delivered from the lust that holds your mind captive to the sin that taints all of your perspectives. Maybe then you will see God’s Kingdom … You must fully understand the sin of Babylon in order to come out of it. The fruit your producing my friend is not that of the Holyspirit. Sounds more like lust to me.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      Rob misled you, most of that is nonsense from Russ Houck.

      • Debra Walker says:

        What was I misled over? The goddesses and deities in the senate rotunda wall are very real. Easter is a holiday worshipping the goddess of fertility these are verified truths outside of Rob’s research. So again, what am I misled over? Are you telling me 12/25 was Jesus’ birth ?? Who is being misled ??

        Jesus commanded that we love one another, He also told us to go and make disciples of all men. Are you doing that?? Rob is using His gifts to carry out the great commission. Grieve not Holyspirit pray for the brethren as stated in Ephesians 6.

        • Debra, benign is benign … but betwixing words like this is far from neutral.

          Debra, we can ALL get “caught up” in things and when we are challenged we have to snap out of it … it is one thing to be bewitched by a wind of doctrine … it is another to be a witch promoting it.

          Or a wizard/ sorcerer doing it with assumed authority. That means men are doing it too Debra, not just women.

          As I said, dancing on Easter and Christmas as “Pagan Pageants”- through political pagan historical associations – doesn’t prove the incarnation, the cross or the resurrection are not worthy of celebration.

          Does this make a person a witch? IF anyone of us undoes grace by such means … yes it makes us guilty.

          Making Easter/ Christmas/ Feast Day/ Sabbath Day references across possibly a dozen historical points of reference at once is “fast and loose”.

          Your sensitivities here, Debra, will make it difficult to remain cautious and necessarily aloof.

          I would ask yourself why. CC.

          • Debra Walker says:

            Christo,

            Trust in God. Pray for the brethren in Jesus Christ.
            Be not of this world come out of Babylon. Search God for these truths. And love one another in Christ.

            God Bless you brother.
            Debra

        • Cris Putnam says:

          Debra you are a little too impressed with what you learned from Rob, a lot of it based on poor scholarship. You should read this: http://www.str.org/articles/is-christmas-pagan#.UpDxvuLX2p1

        • Cris Putnam says:

          Rob is using His gifts to carry out the great commission.

          No he is not. Actually Rob Skiba questions if it should even be in the Bible because he hates the trinity and Russ Houck has written Constantine added the great commission (Matt 28:19) to the Bible and it should not be there. They dispute the Great commission. You should run as fast as you can from these cultic false teachers.

          • Debra Walker says:

            He does not hate the trinity .. He does use his gifts for the great commission. People have actually received Jesus after at a conference he was speaking at.

            I am pressed only with The Lord Jesus Christ. Rob, researches the bible and searches for truth. I wished there were more Christians like him truly committed to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

            Maybe more people would get saved and spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. Too bad you don’t seem to care for the lost. Sounds like you are lost yourself. I pray you come to know Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

            You are making false witness against him. You need to repent. You are a working iniquity.

          • Debra Walker says:

            You are making false witness against him.

            Prove your statements or be considered liars.

  14. Reg & Thoris Sappie says:

    Cris Putnam says….Houcksters and Skibites please consider the Spirit’s role as intercessor: “Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.” (Ro 8:26–27)
    If the Holy Spirit is just a part of the Father as Skiba and Houck teach then who is he interceding with? It doesn’t make sense for the Father to intercede with himself. The Holy Spirit must be a distinct person…….

    Reg says,,,I think you are forgetting Jesus also has a spirit and is speaking Prophetically…“Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness”,,,,, and is the one who ever lives to Intercedes to the Father for us and is the one who . searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit of his Father

    • Cris Putnam says:

      No Reg – That was Paul not Jesus but when Jesus did speak of the Spirit he did so in terms of another person. For example, this passage would not make sense if he was talking about his own Spirit “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.”(Jn 15:26)

  15. Josh says:

    1st of all I’m posting this from my phone so please bear w/any typing errors! There’s really to much on my mind about this absolutely detestable excuse for “Christian fellowship” above! Not only are you guys attacking Rob outta context, but also a sister (Debra) who’s fruit seems to be a lot more “Christ like”, & used scripture to support her heart towards the brethren than everyone else! Whenever she asked a simple question, (i.e. What was she misled about?) & some other ?’s no one answered her but continued to just attack her, Rob, & Hebrew roots trying to prove their point! It’s ridiculous! Not boasting but I’ve been a student of scripture (& all that falls under the category of scripture, history/church,culture/language, archeology, etc. from creation, to current, to kingdom) for more than a decade surpassing the 10,000hr, mark! I ONLY say that to say that I agree w/a lot of what Debra posted regarding her defense of Rob, paganism in the church, & I’ll add (ANTISEMITISM in agreement w/RJRansomed, up there), which is one of the “roots” of your treatment of Debra, Rob, & HR movement-which term I don’t like actually! I can post all kinds of scripture but I’m sure you’ll find a way to get around them In accordance w/2pet.1:20/3:16! Rob is NOT, blaspheming the Holy Spirt, & he’s NOT a heretic! Do you use the term “Old Testament “!? Did you know a REAL heretic coined that term! Most of those involved up there REALLY need to do their homework before they continue to sow discord among the brethren, Pro.6:19! Chris Putnam, I have great respect for you & have prayed for you, your family & ministry, & will continue to do so, been blessed by all your hard work, & look forward for more to come we need you! But as one whom the LORD has chosen to serve in such a capacity, you should know better,Jas.3:1! Is Debra wrong about the paganism issue? Our brother, your co-author whom I’ve also learned a tremendous deal from, wrote exstensively about it in Apollyon rising, & both of you in Petras Romanas!!! I don’t want to use 1 of the platforms GOD has given you for things which are unpleasing to HIM, or challenge you, please understand this is not my intention! But if I was a lost soul looking for that blessed hope, Ti.2:13 -& I know this verse is mostly for believers- I’d just keep going, cause if I’m hurting, I don’t wanna have anything to do w/the kind of drama in these posts, which is probably their main excuse for rejecting Christianity/Church/ YAHSHUA! Well there’s much, much more but, this is not my site! Please feel free to respond/email, & NOT TO DEBATE,YOU WON’T WIN!…-Just joking, trying to bring light to the situation-but hopeful to sharpen each other, Pro.27:17! Blessings to you all, truly, & Shalom!

    • Hi Josh,

      I hear several tones in what you’re saying here. If you’ve only read this thread you haven’t seen the drama on Facebook. This compared is chickenfeed compared to the Facebook replies ad-nauseum.

      But part of the problem is this question of “schtick” as C Putnam puts it … an east coast term for deliberate over reaction for the purposes of generating sympathy (I think very Seinfeld/NYork). Very US based term.

      Debra’s not being picked on, but if you notice the sensitivities aren’t about heresy … but how SOME people believe they can dance around with them … and it’s all just unloving to say so. It can be unloving. What’s more unloving: telling someone they’re going the wrong way … or just letting them drive off a cliff AND saying nothing ?

      There are different tensions … one is whether a distraction becomes a deception … and the other is whether someone is ACTUALLY doing the deceiving ?

      And that is where the line is crossed. And particularly with EVERY eschatological event this side of rapture HOTTING UP up like never before. We (IF that means believers inside AND out) are chucking the towel in towards every circumcision group (Gal)/ “domination religio-group” … who wishes to say they believe in end times events as well … this IS basically saying the Mormons and “JWs” were right all along … and let’s get along to the Catholic Mass as quickly as our feet will carry us to tell them they were right all along.

      The point is this : SO WHAT. These people choose law above grace … and wear a mask. And hold their views back and wait for opportune moments to unsettle the new in faith.

      Grace and peace is the message … Not stumbling blocks placed along the footpath of the youngest children of faith who may have only JUST met the Lord.

      This hasn’t been an exercise in debate, but a small ALARM for all of us. This is a warning bell, not for hours and hours of Facebook debate sessions … but rather that End Time discussion is a seed bed of distraction AND deception for those YOUNG in the faith.

      So if we don’t want to be challenged about deceiving people, be careful about these topics and how WOLVES will use it to inculcate themselves amongst a gospel of grace.

      So IF we heed the warning Jesus gave do not give “pearls to swine” and “do not cause the little ones to stumble” then these things shouldn’t be greatly mishandled as the End times become more pronounced.

      But IF we focus on ourselves, forget the young in faith and choose to isolate these things from those who MIGHT be vulnerable to distraction … then witchcraft, deception and harm is around the corner for all of us. That’s what this is … a warning.

      It’s not censorship, just a modicum of correction for all of us who think “strongholds” have nothing to do with “arguments” which have nothing to do with “lofty things which set themselves up against the knowledge of God”.

      We don’t fear those things, but these things don’t become that way overnight. CC.

  16. Daniel says:

    Some amazing comments on here about this… To think that Rob Skiba is the one whose “research” has been uncovering DC architecture or accusations of Christmas and Easter and that that somehow has ANYTHING to do with denying the Person of the Holy Spirit. Skiba just takes the end resulting product of real researchers who dig up source material, amalgamates them and delivers the material in his own manner. Personally I listened to one video and he was ripping off Peter Goodgame, David Flynn, and Michael Heiser badly it didn’t seem like a single bit of research was his. Not only that but the Architectural finds were first brought to public spector by David Ovason, an author who became a Mason, and then Chris Pinto and all the people he interviewed for his 3 piece documentary series. Tom Horn has also written on that sort of relationship in his books, in fact Pinto wrote the Intro for Apollyon Rising bc Horn built on Pinto’s research. Also Pastor Pete Peters over at DC street sorcery has done some great work on that as well. All of this LIGHT YEARS before Skiba… Because he is efficient at copying and pasting doesn’t give him a license to Judaize and blaspheme the spirit. People absolutely love Judaizers these days people be warned or someone will tell you about the Apotheosis of George Washington and the next day you won’t be eating with Gentiles.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      “Because he is efficient at copying and pasting doesn’t give him a license to Judaize and blaspheme the spirit. ” I agree, I don’t see any original material from him either.

      • Daniel says:

        The worst thing about all this is where it seemingly leads to with these Judaizers, I don’t know what else to call them. It’s to varying degrees because they are a loose a group, but I spend a good amount of time on YT and they’re everywhere with their pseudo-scholarship. It’s so worrisome because, unlike you dealing with it here (and taking unwarranted flak because people don’t understand the slippery slope this is), not many people are out there dealing with this textually and theologically. Mike Hoggard and Steven Anderson (who have taken their share of lumps) are out there fighting with his KJV only armor on and who can take that serious? This is why so many Christians are falling into this trap, it’s pretty pervasive from what I see.

        Not only is “Pagan Catholic Trinity” Denial their stamp , many of them who are honest with the text and it’s implications recognize that it’s either the Law or Paul. Instead of the SDA tactic of attempting to just read the Torah into the NT (law, lawless, man of lawlessness), the HRM recognizes the incompatibility between Paul and the Law. So, while there are many who haven’t gone to that extreme yet, there are so many out there that deny Paul and claim he’s a False Prophet etc… simply put they begin to deny the the NT in favor of the OT. They say that YHWH and Yeshua preach the same message but that it’s Paul who corrupts the Word and those that are already settled on that will talk the one’s primed for the convincing into it as well. The Pharisees waged war on Paul in his day and he was eventually martyred for it then and they’re still after him now.

        Then they start talking about how Mary isn’t a virgin and that Almah isn’t the precise Hebrew word for virgin and that Yeshua is really the Messiah and not God. Because they begin to read the OT like Orthodox Jews do and come to see that there is no way that YHWH isn’t one God and that no where in the OT does it say anything about there being any hint that Messiah would be God made flesh or that he would be God’s son. Also that the Spirit is the spirit of the Father. Because you can’t split the Shema or Paul didn’t split the Shema. That’s Rob Skiba right there, the Spirit, and he’s being dishonest about how he feels because he’s in danger of losing his momentum and his guest appearances and whatever else… way to be a Martyr for your truth Rob, Polycarp would be proud of you.

        I’m more concerned about the amount of Christian’s who are beginning to identify with this. Because, and to a much lesser extent, but equally pervasive in the black YT community are the Hebrew Israelite’s. So there is this synthesis of all things Torah, and the Law, and Judaizing in general on the net. All these beards and facial hair are popping up all over and I made a comment to a friend that the Judaizers are EVERYWHERE. The problem is that you don’t know just how heretical they are and that they are claiming that THEY represent true Christianity (except the Hebrew Israelites) and that true Christianity has Jewish roots and that Pagan Catholics corrupted everything, including the “obvious” Pagan Trinity. It’s amazing how Rob was being so naive about his “just asking questions approach,” when he really believes that the Trinity is Pagan and that it represents Nimrod, Enki, Ishtar.

        • Ben says:

          Good answer mate! Good to know I’m not alone.

          • I’II break something open for you boys, and not I’m not the originator … but a witness. And I didn’t quite get it although it was obvious something was up!

            It IS possible to read verse from the Scriptures in one hand and curse brethren/ brothers/ anointing/ prayer groups of believers with the other … and thresh and quench the Holy Spirit’s flame though inattention … and the allowing of Scripture to crunch the Holy Spirit.

            To be gathered praying, hear a prophetic word … hearing from the Spirit a word of correction … people meditate … someone picks up the Bible … and out comes Religion … out comes threshing, crushing words of death and hostility or opposition to oppose the prior words. A form of “soft hostility” … as though it wasn’t really in opposition. Very deniable … but always palpable.

            Soft hostility … deniable hostility ? Is it possible? You bet your bottom dollar it is … and many think themselves faithful stewards for it.

            Let me explain, one person says MOVE ON … i.e.. “The Lord says not to camp here” … and the next person says “God wants to bless you”, “speak words of faith” … “God wants you to have fun” … “God doesn’t condemn”. The Scriptures exist for that … for each of these … so how can it be so bad ?

            For example “Ambassadorship of Christ”, whilst a good thing … at the wrong time … in the wrong way can be reductionism in the worst possible way … as to itching ears?

            How could it possibly be as to itching ears, I hear you ask? It is possible, and it is practiced.

            Because it is a message against the Presence of God, the anointing of the Spirit and salvation … it says we can do it on our own … regardless of whether God’s Presence is even welcome inside the church.

            ie “They know OF Him … but don’t want to KNOW him … keep Him out” , and so the alternative is drowning out the warnings … and practicing religion.

            “Let’s move on to Communion” … “what there’s no such thing as eating/ drinking judgment on ourselves … who said that!” … and the Pastor of the community leads the way

            Whilst this seems like a single problem, like a single person, it clearly it is vast and not simply handled and a warning of greater measure.

          • Cris Putnam says:

            Christo,

            You seem to miss the fact that Mr Skiba accused everyone who affirms the doctrine of the trinity of being a heretic. There is such a thing as a false teacher and we are not to treat them as brothers but rather expose them. Skiba is a false teacher leading people astray.

          • Daniel Baker says:

            Exactly i’s a much bigger probem and it stems from interpretation of the word but before that it starts with the presupposition that the Catholic Church was made totally Pagan by Constantine at Nicea. This conspiracy theory has been thoroughly debunked and too much credit is given it by Judaizers like Skiba. This is th foundation for his heresy, that he believes the Catholic Church became Pagan aft that point and the Trinity is a Pagan doctrine along with whatever else followed.

            Now the Catholic Church as it stands today and over the course of history has been affected by Pagans and Gnostics through the Venetians (Cathaginians,Phoenicians, Canaanites) and later Masonry, you’ll get no argument from me there, but the Church also carried the word of God and spread it around the world. Are people really of the belief that God allowed Jesus to come and then immediately corrupted his word and didn’t allow it’s true message to be revealed until the reformers over a thousand years later?? Bc that’s what he’s saying and even worse the reformers got it wrong and it wasn’t until Hislop wrote his work that we were freed from Pagan bondage. Catholics have been screaming about a Masonic plot to subvert their Church for years. Popes and clergy have written about it for years, but does that mean that it is Pagan Solar Deity worship founded by Contantine? Please, and this is what Skiba allows to influence his own personal doctrine forming and then uses it to edify others . He also uses the Gnostic term Archon in his popular works bc of the terms recent popularity boost as well as his close ties to the overly occult film industry . If I applied his mentality to these facts I would see him as a man with an agenda.

            The problem is not people calling him out, bc frankly this Judaizing is firmly planted on the net and YT. Frankly there isn’t enough scholarly Christians defending the doctrines and teachings of the New Testament and the gospel of Christ. I belong to a religion that religion is Christianity I don’t care how much Social Facism and PC thought control has damaged the word and usurped it with acceptable pop terms like “spirituality.” I understand why scholars choose not to deal with laymen in all honesty however you make a great point about Pastors. With less and less Christians going to Church and receiving interpretation elsewhere, they start gluing pieces together that don’t necessarily fit with Orthodoxy or with common sense. Everyone’s searching for the secret interpretation that has eluded the body for millennia . This leaves them susceptible to the warnings of Paul. Paul wrote letter after letter criticizing the Churches he planted correcting their actions, intentions, teachings, and values. Telling them to constantly humble themselves and ground themselves in his Orthodoxy.

            Unfortunately there is a huge Vatican conspiracy culture and prior to this liberal Pope a negative media campaign which has been misinterpreted by people to believe that the Orthodox Christianity of the apostles needs to be returned to it’s hebraic roots. This is exactly what popular Kabbalists are saying as well, that Christianity needs to come back under the fold of Judaism, which is overrun and dominated by Pagan mysticism, oh the irony !!!!!!! Whatever we may think of any of this or the credibility of the people espousing it to brush them off and say love your brother (or your enemy for that matter but I won’t bring up that hypocrisy) and pray for him etc… is not only naive but ignorant of the situation.How do you contend for the faith without criticism? People are way too influenced by Social Fascism these days and it’s a pity that so many cafeteria Christians without the slightest clue this is a microcosm of that much larger problem that you astutely mentioned. Love your brother and pay for him while he subverts your faith… bc why… he steals research, claims it as his own and steals more unfounded research and tells you a story?

            John 13:34-35 is one of my favorite verses but if a man is corrected and continues to error he is now doing it with intent and when he blasphemes the spirit as a doctrine and his teachings are decidedly error laden he’s no brother of mine and teachers of the word are held to a much higher standard lets not forget.

            Off with his head !!!!!! (im kidding it’s a joke, we can still do that I hope )

          • Chris and others,

            It is clear R Skiba is/was guilty. And he’s using others to shield him. As is evidenced above.

            But what is most important here, is that if we are going to tell someone else to cut their lawn – we’d better take a look at our own before we do. Have we don’t that … or done it sufficiently ?

            We know “Judaizers” don’t usually come in the form of a “non threatening film makers” – but that is the schtick – a face you don’t expect for the hard core.

            But let me ask? I’ve had it recently said to me Paul stepped on many toes, and that it was in fact Paul who stepped over the line with Peter at Antioch in Galations. And I have always held Paul was not wrong.

            Now we know Paul defended himself, we know Peter was emotional and had weaknesses and went too far, and was the Devil’s mouthpiece to Jesus (“Get behind me Satan”); was leaning towards the Circumcision Group publicly … and claimed not to understand Paul.

            We know there are Orthodox Jews, and Gentile “ring-ins growing beards” learning hebrew … and we know there are proselytisers for it which is what Skiba is right now. But IF there is a case for giving time to Skiba … it is that Peter the Apostle did worse. And wouldn’t confess it either – almost deflecting everything he did to attack Paul. (“hard to understand”)

            That is rubbish though. Peter knew exactly what he was doing. To varying degrees, but such hostility isn’t subtle. Was Peter the thorn? I know … don’t tell … it was acne or a back ache.

            And is Skiba Peter, the Apostle? … eh …. not quite.

            Perhaps what is really the issue is a weakness in the management of the “End Times Research Community” was exploited so publicly (eg. Future Congress) And that if a group can be so easily thrown off, is the Lord making a broader remark about the capacity of distraction in the End Times ?

            It shows how weak the church is, and how assuming we speak to believers, not checking with the Lord first about people – and trusting them – puts the weakest amongst us in the firing line.

            Just because some quote and claim to believe in Genesis 6 and claim Christ as Lord doesn’t mean they mean well, it means we have let the equivalent of JWs and Mormons into the house.

            Those people you keep at the door step, that’s what it means. We caused this.

  17. Ben says:

    I believe Jesus is the fullness of the godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9. I believe the Father to be his spirit body just as we have a spirit body and The Holy Spirit to be the equivalent of our soul. If we are made in His image then we only need to look at ourselves. We too are a 3-in-1 being just as He. We have a physical and spirit body and a soul but these 3 are in one person. The deception of the trinity is that if you have 3 persons then that means there are 3 bodies. A person needs a body to be a person and separate personalities means no personal relationship with one God. The devil knew what he was doing with this deception. When we look at each other we don’t see 3 beings for each person but we know there are 3 parts of our make-up. The same is with God. Who was it that walked with Adam in the garden? It was Jesus, housing the fullness of the Godhead in one body. Any other view to say that there are 3 persons, is contradicting the truth. If you want to worship 3 gods, go right ahead. No where in the Bible does it say there are 3 persons with separate personalities. That’s a lie of the devil to prevent you from having a PERSONAL relationship with the ONE LIVING GOD.

    Isaiah 9:6 reads….
    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace.

    John 14:8-9:
    8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
    9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

    To say you have God in your life and believe that God is made up of 3 persons then I’m sorry but you just don’t have Him in your life. You’ve been fooled and have an imposter, a false god and you need to get rid of it.

  18. John H says:

    Seems to me after reading all these post especially the one that started it..That..everyone of you absolutely know the mind of Mr.Skiba and that of God’s….! Really really? Is this how Christians or those who claim to follow God are suppose to bring others to Him? By arguing and bickering amoungest one another.
    I read Mr. Skiba’s faith statement and no where did I see anything remotely disrespecting anyone’s belief’s but after reading all this off of this page I can see why ppl are turned off ! Is it Mans job to judge or is it Gods? Seems like a lot of human on human judgment going on here, wtf folks good job!

    • Daniel says:

      John H, while I can appreciate your issue with the escalation that has taken place but Skiba referred to everyone who affirms the doctrine of the Trinity a heretic, so hopefully youre giving him the same outrage youre lobbing over here<<<<< read that again. Are you a Christian? If so you're a heretic. Now I don't know about you but he was corrected by Cris Putnam. He then began to disagree and continously state his case from an overwhelming point of ignorance after being corrected by a man who has taken their time and paid big money to go and learn from the greatest minds in Christianity today and in the history of the Church.

      You repeat Skiba's statement of faith. Is that what you are basing this on, his statement of faith? Because had you followed the genesis of the topic you would have seen the escalation and Rob Skiba after being thoroughly addressed and without a leg to stand on began to play the victim card like he was being picked on. Now I'm personally not down with the whole cry I'm being bullied bc you can no longer defend your position move and appeal to I'm being picked on. Or did you miss this back and forth on Facebook, he was backed into a corner until he said some things that now we can all refer to. It's the lazy people that enjoy his stolen conspiracy reasearch presented as his own (though shalt not steal, clearly that doesn't matter to you).

      His statement of faith came after and he doesn't believe the Holy Spirit is a personified spirit. So his SOF is a duplicitous attemtp to not lose his position and come-up in fringe Christian topics especially filiming Occult hollywood movies and implying Gnostic terminolgy like Archon (real Christian). That has more in common with Kabbala then Christiantiy. Now he's exposing architecture, well too late, Chris Pinto and Peter Peterson were light years ahead of him on that. Now Rob is also a Judaizer and he's concealing that so not to be ostracized from the community and so he can still continue to grasp a segment of internet Christians to support his ministry

      You bring up judgement and yes that isn't very Christian, but seriously are we judging or are we pointing out false teachers to protect the flock who arent as studied on this guy, and frankly judging by your reference to only his statement of faith , which was changed to protect his butt after Putnam told him he was wrong, which he cried literally on FB trying to garner sypathy after posting 16 year old girl statemets bc he had no actual theological retort.. He may be your brother but I've been following him since his first lecture he gave in which I knew all the material bc it was flat out stolen – Peter Goodgame, Michael Heiser, David Flynn, and perhaps Tom Horn. We're not supposed to have any fellowship with false teachers and Judaizers. I'm sick of Judaizers and so was Paul writing to Galatians. If you can't see that, I wonder what dogmas and doctrines you affirm or if you've thoroughly checked into this mans teachings and the movenemt he's associated with and the nature landslide and close denomenations that believe flat out wacky stuff.

      These posts here by Cris Putnam are to warn True, Orthodox, and Reformed Christians to be aware of someone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit and calls Trinitarians heretics. The Lord said to have no fellowships of workers of iniquity or to beware of Doctrines of men and to stay grounded in Paul's Orthodoxy. Rob Skiba preaches a different gospel and he was apporached politely be Chris for correction and he got defensive and escalated from his ignorant, untrained POV, and played the victim. This has CLEARLY worked along with him bring the rest of the Judaizers out to defend him. Judaism and Christianity are two different religions, Judaism isn't the mother of Christianity and can't hold a candle to it, yet has always despised it and wishes to "Eliminate the Opiate" like Rabbi Antleman predicted… the removal of the Christisn God. Writing books like Troah book of wisdom and speaking in the original languages of names are just all of sign where this movement leads to. Look it up seriously to see where these beliefs lead. Unless of course you are a Judaizer. And at that point I bid you farewell bc my scripture warns me about the Judaizers.;

      We must contend for the faith in these latter days especially against a self proclaimed non teacher of the word who is out shooting movies based on Archons (A GNOSTIC TERM USED ONLY TO HYPE A SERIES OR MOVIES, we call that being worldy, and it's worrying.

      AFTER ALL THAT IT'S SAFE TO SAY TO THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY TO STAY AWAY FROM A FALSE TEACHER. employing Orwellian doublespeak. He's a Judaizers and do you know the slippery slope of Judaizing, Paul wrote to the Galatians about strict warnings about Judaizers.

      Now after a man who has such rhetoric in his comments driven by outrage here one can only think you have ties to Rob Skiba, do you? Are you a fellow Judaizer that St' Paul warned about or are you just someone who listened to his stolen research, from other Christian Researchers, David Flynn, Peter Goodgmae, Tom Horn, and Chris Pinto and Michael Heiser. He bases all large amount of work from his work on Hislops Two Babylons, which has been THOROUGHLY debunked. What has he offered to the community that is his own research or insights in an edifying way. That would be amalgamating Tom Horn, Putnam, Heiser, Goodgame, his absolute rip off of them in his Mount Hermon connection lecture was pure theft. It's one thing to do the research of high level scholars and then take that down to fit a thesis and deliver that to the laymen reader and body like Putnam Horn and Goodgame. His books are getting panned as amateurish on Amazon etc.. You may see this as me bad mouthing the guy but false teaching judaizers need to be called out just like Paul the Apostle wrote to Galatians about.

      This may be my only reply to you after your swear abbreviations bc I see nothing but Judaizing on the web and not interested in bringing Christianity under the rood og Kabbalistic Judaism and if that's on the train you're on we don't have more to discuss, however if you're genuinely open to evidence I will gladly engage if you are a true Christian who has begun entertaining this is a question manner, however the vehemenc with which you defend Rob and the language abbreviations you use you seem beyond reproach and passionate about this. Just now that this warning against Skiba is well founded by Orthodox Christians for a slew of reasons nevermind his save face statemtn of faith, which doesn't support his activities.

      • Debra says:

        Greatest MINDS in Christianity. What does the bible day about a carnal mind ?
        Are we competing to look like the world in these matters you know satanists validate
        Themselves through the puffed up theory of a great mind .. Which would be nothing without God.

        I get that you think you have good intentions but reading your commentary it feels like nails on a chalkboard approach.

        Pharisees made their case by the laws they contrived in their GREAT MINDS.. They were unfortunately deceived as so many are. These comments in my opinion have become nothing but vain and profane babblings. Many feel they need the adoration of their education to validate their position. Right or wrong there is no Love. Once again Jesus said the world will know you are mine through your love for one another. Discipleship what does that mean to you Christian??? Cannot get it through academia or a degree.. Or a great mind that is vanity puffing itself up above the knowledge of God’s love and mercy for the lost. You don’t need a college degree to know Jesus. Thank God.

        I know that upsets those who feel they have worked harder than others at their salvation but the truth is there is nothing in our works or righteousness that is pleasing to God. Believe in him is the only thing that pleases Him. But our own works well you are well educated you know what God thinks of it.

        • Daniel Baker says:

          Dra don’t talk to me about what I sound like please. Are you the same person who foundwhat have you sent to Rob to address guys gross errors and his writings? That the pagan holidaCa you celebrate were brought to your attention by Rob Skibs has made you a believer? Do you know how long that’s been around? ROB STEALS RESEARCH and presents it as his own. You saw someone saved to Jesus at a Skina conference. How many millions saved a day at Benny Hinn conferences? Do you even know the genesis of his movement and where he gets his foundational beliefs from? DO YOU.? Rob is no brother of mine, he’s a thief, and a heuristic,aand people need to be earned of him.

          He steals research and presents it as his own. That right there should tell you enough, Because he pointed out something frankly you, as a Christian should have known and investigated to begin with makes him a saint in your mind.? This is about defending a faith, with doctrines, do you links where HRM leads? You need to some homework before you lack out in emotional defense bc one guy stole a bunch of research and youow you think he’s a brother. You’re speaking from a point of ignorance frankly and I’ll pray for you bc Rob Skins is LIAR. He is using Gnostic terminology ( our enemy to serve mammon) to sell and popularize works and is a Judaizer. Maybe you should read a Paul’s epistles instead of cherry picking love your brother mentality and turn the other cheek theology. The Church is in a bad way bc we are uneducated and wolves like Skiba, also vastly uneducated, claim belief in major doctrines that don’t jive with the Gospel. You want to be HRM go right ahead just don’t come here and tell us were wrong. Move on please bc Paul wrote Galatians to Rob Skiba… Archon =Gnostic= Kabbalah…

          How much do you really know about him? How many hours of take have you listened to him. Did you hear him call Christians heretics. I’m glad my words are like finger son chalkboards. Maybe someone will actually investigate him and Guthrie expose him from the fraud I first saw him to be after stealing the work of my favorite researchers and presenting it as his own.

          Dr

          • sydwynder says:

            Daniel,you mentioned Micheal hieser,ive got all the respect in the world for him, great writer, smart man. Anyway rob is a flatearther now lol, he took a video that Mike did on how the ancient Hebrews imagined the earth, which was flat with a dome,maybe if we all lived back then before we had the knowledge we’d think it was flat to, so rob used the video an says that Micheal confirms that the earth is flat, bold face lie, if you go on Mikes website he “flatly” denies the earth is flat, in fact he won’t even entertain the idea of a flat earth. My point being rob lends the idea that Micheal Hieser agrees with the flatearth model, just another example of “skeber” being greasy,if that’s Christian then I don’t wanta be one anymore!?

  19. David Harding says:

    http://www.logosapologia.org/?p=5144 Wow Thanks Chris! I think Rob might be right on this one. The Holy Spirit must be the spirit of God the Father or he aint Jesus’ father!. How can he be the spirit of God the Father and be a different person at the same time. Looks like a conundrum to me! I guess we should call the thought police! Just kidding! But it does make on think! IS ANYONE HERE QUALIFIED TO JUDGE THE NATURE OF THE INFINITE GOD? The mystery remains!

    • Cris Putnam says:

      The Father was still Jesus’ father before the incarnation (physical birth). Psalm 2 was written nearly 1000 years prior and uses Father/son terms. I guess you just ignored how Rob’s reasoning is based on misunderstanding the vocabulary? T Actually, there’s no mystery at all if you account for all of the evidence in scripture. Are you also agreeing with Rob that all triniatrians are heretics and apostasizing from the Christian faith?

      • IF there weren’t people in the sidelines waiting to exploit others … you’d be right … it’s just overcooked … and just a bunch of people big noting their teachings and themselves, David. Yes, if that were the case, you would be right.

        But throwing your hands up in the air, saying it’s all mystery – despite what CAN BE SAID – is unnecessarily reductionist. Just because you don’t know everything … doesn’t mean you know nothing. You know enough to be safe. Father and Son is safe language and sufficient for knowledge. The Spirit of God is safe language, as is the Counsellor and the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

        There is plenty of mystery which shields us from plenty of responsibilities … but claiming we know nothing about what HAS been said is like saying because you don’t have a whole nations maps … a simple road map won’t help.

        One might say how does knowing this guide … but one thing is for sure … it will keep you out of the ditches.

        The Spirit of the Father vs The Spirit of Jesus Christ vs The Spirit of God are not questions which justify hostility or argument. They could certainly fill out a doctoral thesis … but so what. These terms must be ratified according to who used them and why.

        Judaising comes into this because of the problem of multiple words/ phrases for the same thing … but it shows how dismissing doctrinal discussion exposes groups to danger.

  20. Mark says:

    I think if he wants to be taken seriously, yes,as you have broken down his claim,did it politely and logically.

  21. PiedPiper says:

    Hi Cris, Just to inform you that the link you placed above on Skiba being a teacher on Sukkot’s website, was not found when you click it……so I give you this link. Looks like someone wanted to hide it.
    http://sukkottx.com/rob-skiba-joins-sukkot-texas-2014/

  22. HB Christo says:

    I guess it’s the right time to look back and do a survey on where things stand, based on giving everyone time to see where things stand.

    Hopefully there has been some moderation, and some clarity.

    The main thing is the End Times Research Community has some good due diligence in place as we move faster forward than ever. It is getting so fast.

    Catholic church has JUST indicated a lower family value standard or inclusiveness. This is another thread. HBC.

  23. Nonaya says:

    You need to grow up and stop being a baby. Sounds like you just want someone to bend to your interpretation which is way off. Grow a set and be man. If you have something you want to say to rob go to him and stop hiding and doing things behind his back. Coward.

    • Aaron says:

      Thats extremely Christ-like to say. And this is why people turn their backs to Christians. Good job buddy. You just lost another to your prideful selfishness.

  24. mike says:

    would like to know what you people think…..but only because you have tone.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. […] Father, but the son of the Holy Spirit.”[2] Of course, I previously refuted that misunderstanding here. The book is full of similar misinformation.  Houck writes, “I discovered that,  …in the name […]

  2. […] Cris Putnam’s website and Initial essay on the Person-hood of the Holy Spirit […]

  3. […] years a heretic. He has no respect for anyone who has come before him and, as shown in previous posts,  his cultist views are based on a surface reading of an English translation. Very poor form. But […]

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