Petrus Romanus and the Jerusalem Connection Part 2

By Cris D. Putnam

Serving as bookends for all of redemptive history, “Jerusalem” is first mentioned when Melchizedek, a prophetic type of Jesus Christ, is called the “king of Salem” (Gen 14:18), and then finally, the book of Revelation closes with the “New Jerusalem” coming down from heaven (Rev 21). It is undoubtedly holy ground. God was once present in Jerusalem in a special way above and beyond His usual omnipresence. The Hebrew Bible records that God’s presence manifested physically as the “Shekinah” described as a radiant cloud (1 Kgs 8:10–11). During Ezekiel’s ministry, when God became fed up with His people’s sin, His glory departed Jerusalem (Eze 10:18-19). Shortly thereafter, just as the prophets predicted, the Babylonians captured and destroyed Jerusalem (2 Kgs 25; Jer. 52). This marked the inauspicious end of the first temple period.

The Jews rebuilt the second temple in Jerusalem but things did not happen as they expected. They might have known because the prophet Daniel not only predicted the second temple’s destruction, he told them the Messiah would come prior (Dan 9:24–26). This should lead all Jews to the inescapable conclusion that because only Jesus meets that requirement, their Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) demands that Jesus was the Messiah. Isaiah had even written that the Messiah would be rejected and suffer for the sins of the people (Isa 53:5). Jesus marked the return of God to the temple in the first century and just as before, when He was rejected it was again destroyed. Although it has taken centuries, some Jews have begun to acknowledge this. Even the late Rabbi Yitzchak Kaduri (a popular kabbalist, who died in 2006 prompting three hundred thousand people to march in his funeral procession) came to this truth. In what can only be described as a bizarre twist of fate, he left a sealed message with strict orders for it to be opened one year after his funeral. That message named Yeshua as the Messiah in an acrostic and Kaduri had said previously the Messiah  would return shortly after Ariel Sharon dies.[i] Sharon is alive but has been preserved in a permanent vegetative state since suffering a stroke in January of 2006. Whether this comes to pass or not, as we saw in the last post, more and more Jews are beginning to acknowledge that Jesus must be the Messiah for the Torah to hold true.

The Torah promised the nation blessings under obedience (Dt 28:1–14) and it promised they would be cursed and uprooted from the land if they were not (Dt 28:15ff). The Torah was not broken because, as we examined in the last chapter, the latter condition is exactly what has happened from AD 70 onward. God’s permissive will toward the centuries of satanic persecution and even the holocaust only make sense in light of Deuteronomy 28:15 onward. But the prophets also spoke of a time beyond those two temples to a glorious future and their descriptions feature Jerusalem prominently. A representative example is, “Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain” (Zec 8:3). Indeed, this is the ultimate destiny of Jerusalem and it also explains why the leaders of Judaism, Islam, and Romanism want to claim it as their own. Christians are, for the most part, unconcerned because they expect Jesus to claim it for Himself upon His return.

On December 15, 2011, this story ran on the Israeli Arutz Sheva 7 website:

 

Exposé: The Vatican Wants to Lay its Hands on Jerusalem

Peace negotiations in the Middle East must tackle the issue of the status of the holy sites of Jerusalem”, Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, head of the Vatican’s Council for Interreligious Dialogue, declared several days ago in Rome.

The Vatican’s former foreign minister asked to place some Israeli holy places under Vatican authority, alluding to the Cenacle on Mount Zion and the garden of Gethsemane at the foot of the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem.

The first site also houses what is referred to as King David’s tomb.[ii]

In Petrus Romanus you will learn how the Roman Catholic Church has had designs on owning Jerusalem since the time of the crusades. While those bloody expeditions were largely in defense of the dubious theology behind pilgrimage, the Vatican’s ambitions today seem more concrete. They want political control over the Old City of Jerusalem in the same manner as the old Papal States and Vatican City today. So, we come full-circle and ask, “What does the Vatican have in mind for Jerusalem?” This seems to be pointing to ecumenical end-time faith being headquartered in Jerusalem. The Bible not only predicts that a great apostasy will occur there just prior to Christ’s return, it predicts that God’s two witnesses will be killed there. “And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified” (Re 11:8). That characterization symbolically describes the nature of the coming third-temple faith. We promise more startling details are forthcoming upon the book’s release in April. Sign up to be notified here.

 

More on the Jerusalem Agenda next week.

 


[i] See: “Rabbi Kaduri Reveals Name of the Messiah,” last accessed February 10, 2012, http://www.cyber-synagogue.com/rabbi_kaduri_reveals_name_of_Messiah.htm.

[ii] Giulio Meotti, “Expose: The Vatican Wants to Lay its Hands on Jerusalem,” Israel National News, December 15, 2011, http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/150757#.TzV9aORnDmd.

About Cris Putnam
Logos Apologia is the ministry of Cris D. Putnam. The mission of Logos Apologia is to show that logic, science, history and faith are complementary, not contradictory and to bring that life-changing truth to everybody who wants to know.

Comments

  1. Lee says:

    “…they expect Jesus to claim it for Himself upon His return.”

    Forgive me if I’m misunderstanding something here,but doesn’t Jesus say “My kingdom is not of this world”?

    Why would He want an earthly temple?

    • Cris Putnam says:

      Lee,

      Jesus was speaking of his first advent. My assertion is in reference to the second advent. Zechariah 14 covers his return to the Mount of Olives and the battle of Armageddon. The Bible teaches that Jesus will return to rule the earth as a literal King. The angel told Mary he would claim David’s throne, “And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David,”(Lk 1:31-32) This was prophesied throughout the OT like in “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” (Is 9:6)

      Also Psalm 2:

      Ps 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”

      The book of Revelation provides more detail:

      Rev 2:27 and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father.
      Rev 12:5 She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,
      Rev 19:15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.

      Revelation 20 covers the millennial kingdom on earth. Hope that helps.

  2. Good Soldier says:

    Eze_4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

    I have appointed thee each day for a year.

    Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

    688AD the year the Dome of the Rock was begun to 1948 = 1260 years.

    Rev_11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    752AD the year the Pope Stephen II was given Temporal Power to 2012 = 1260 years.

    Rev_13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

    God Bless.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      Good Soldier (and all who favor a historicist view),

      I actually argue for a historicist view in the book Petrus Romanus yet I make some qualifications and advocate a hybrid of historicism/futurism. It is interesting to me that you cite:

      752AD the year the Pope Stephen II was given Temporal Power to 2012 = 1260 years.

      I build a historical case for Romanism turning the corner with the donation of Pepin which was based on forged documents (Donation of Constantine). However, it is important to note that historians have been able to nail down the date more accurately to AD 756 as when the Pope became a temporal power. Interestingly, that would place the end of the 1260 years in 2016 which is in the 3.5 year range of 2012 – which is the classic length. Part of my hybrid approach to the prophecies is that they are foretold in a 2 fold sense. Thus, not only is the 1260 year/day formula in the equation, there is also a literal 3.5 year period at the end time culmination. This accounts for the best arguments of both schools of thoughts of thought. There is an entire chapter of the book Petrus Romanus: “Historicism Back to the Future” that explains this approach.

      @Brent – the reason I place the pope as the false prophet rather the Antichrist is explained thoroughly in the book but the prophecies clearly predict 2 end time individuals. One is a political leader (the beast from the abyss, Antichrist) and the other is a spiritual figure (the land beast, false prophet).

      The typical historicist view does not account for both figures. Also Jesus is described as throwing the false prophet and antichrist into the lake of fire, one does not throw institutions (like the papacy) into hell. This necessitates 2 individual persons who are present at the second advent.

      If the pope is the antichrist then who would be the spiritual leader? It seems self evident that the pope is more of spiritual leader (while he was a political force in the middle ages, he is not so much today). It seems Vatican II paved the wave for a pluralistic ecumenical faith under a false prophet figure.

      I really cannot conceive that a pope is going to win the worlds allegiance but I can see a very charismatic political figure who perhaps solves the world’s economic and energy woes and becomes a world leader through the UN getting the endorsement of a Pope and then the 2 unite under and new ecumenical faith headed by said pope. The papacy is not very credible due to the pedophile scandals and what not, its going to need some thing from outside itself to gain world wide credibility.

      This is part of the hybrid approach between futurism/historicism I am arguing for in the book. I believe both views have merit and work together.

  3. john B says:

    I have always believed that When Jesus returns it will be to judge the living and the dead Acts10:42 to which the great white throne judgment is symbolical Rev20:11-15.
    2Tim4:1 reveals that Jesus comes into His kingdom to judge the living and the dead Not to set it up rather it is to purge it of all stumbling blocks Mat13:41-43

    1Cor15:24-28 also reveals that at His coming at the End is when He delivers the Kingdom to the Father it is presently that His enemies are subjected under His feet with being Death the last enemy then Christ Himsels is subjected to the father… “Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God” Vs50

    We shall inherit The New heaven and the New earth as is the promise 2Pet3:13. This also Abraham looked forward to by Faith The city of which God is the builder Heb11:10.

    john B

  4. Lee says:

    “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.”~2 Peter 3:10

    I take this to mean when the Lord returns,that’s it,nothing left behind!?

    For us to be changed in the twinkling of an eye,that would indicate we are no longer of this world.

    To think otherwise would give rise to looking for “another Christ”,wouldn’t it?

  5. Jason Jones says:

    Lee, Spend some time reading the Minor Prophets such as, Hosea, Joel, Amos, etc… These Minor Prophets were very much concerned with “The Day of the Lord” and if you read through them you will pick up many of the nuances that are used in the New Testament by Paul, John, Peter and even Jesus. All that to say, after the “Great and Terrible Day of the Lord” there is a restoration will the Lord brings peace not only to Israel, but the world. Hosea 2:18 “I will make for you a covenant on that day with the wild animals, the birds of the air, and the creeping things of the ground, and I will abolish the bow, the sword, and war from the land; and I will make you lie down in safety.” Joel 3:17-21, Amos 9:11-15

  6. Lee says:

    Jason,

    Yes,I should read those.

    In what context then do you read the verse I quoted about the earth being destroyed by fire?

    (And I apologize in advance,but so many Zionist interpretations of scripture to suit their agenda have left me very much on the defensive. Anything that reads of a heaven on this earth leaves me very concerned.)

  7. john B says:

    Hi Jason; These scriptures above that you gave pertain to
    “The new heavens and the new earth” see Isiah65:17-25… Surely what the prophets saw in part The Apostles reveal as a whole. spiritual things pertaining to the spirit realm are portrayed by the prophets using The things of the natural realm.. Even Jesus did such in many of His parables..
    These prophecies find their fulfillment after “the Fire” 2Pet3:10 to which Lee pointed out.. besides there is no marriage in the kingdom of the Father “For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven” Mk12:25.

    JW’s and dispensationalist are on the same page as the rabbinical teachings of the pharisees who understood not the prophets.. This present push for the restoration of Israel is a Zionist political agenda most diabolical by nature which will give rise to Antichrist and the falling away of many christians who have bought the Lie. 2Thes2.

    Let us not be deceived for the day of the Lord cometh burning like a furnace Mal4:1

    john B

  8. Good Soldier says:

    Hi John B,

    I couldn’t agree with you more when you said that dispensationalism will lead many to fall way. In that system of false doctrine a Christian will never see the Antichrist because the rapture happens first. The rapture happens on the last day and not 7 years before the last day.

    Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

    1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Historicity hold the view that the tribulation or the time of Jacobs trouble is 2520 years in length and not 7 years as our dispensational brothers teach. The mid point of the seven times was the year 688AD when the abomination was set up in the Holy Place. both Daniel 12 and Revelation 12 are centered around this date.

    See this link for details: http://www.israelinbibleprophecy.com/johns_math.htm

    Lev 26:24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.

    God Bless

  9. Brent says:

    Why do you believe the Pope will be the false prophet and not the antichrist?

  10. john B says:

    Hi Cris; Like yourself I believe that the papacy will be The major power unifying the world unto the worship of the beast and its Image..in that sense it lends itself to be the false prophet constituted in the papal seat.. Have you pondered the possibility that the image is the ecumenical God of one’s choice Buddha, Mohamed, Jesus, ect This seems to be the present agenda of the interfaith push.. The problem arises with the man of Sin (son of perdition)in connection with the Apostasy about which Tom Horn says is the departure (rapture) However; if the departure is not the rapture but the traditionally held view that it is the falling away from the faith, then your view on the False prophet with the current ecumenical climate has a much more valid point. could it be that it is the false prophet that is the Antichrist that would not contradict the scriptures would it.. it is merely applying the name Antichrist to the second beast instead of the first and this would also be more in context with what Apostle John tells us about the Antichrist being a religious person having “departed from the faith” 1Jn2:19. therefore Antichrist is an Apostate religious figure exalting himself above God as Apostle Paul tells us in 2Thes..

    john b

    • Cris Putnam says:

      John B, Where did you read Tom argue that the apostasy of 2 Thess 2 is the rapture? It’s really not tenable from the Greek text. Because in our book I argue it is a falling away from biblical faith (and nearly all scholars agree). I provide a lot of documentation in my exegetical research paper on 2 Thess 2 which is linked here on the site, (look in the archive list). The problem with the word “Antichrist” is that it used in different ways, John said that many antichrists had already come way back in the first century but usually people mean the final end time “man of sin” / beast from the abyss figure. It’s not a very precise term.

  11. Good Soldier says:

    Hi Cris,

    Thank you for taking the time to answer my post. I have big problems with Futurism because of it’s connection to Jesuit priests like Francisco Ribera, Cardinal Robert Bellarmine and Manuel Lacunza. But with that said you could be right that the last 3.5 years will be the end times from 2012 to 2016 but I actually doubt it very much, I do think it will be the end of the Papal System of Antichrist and that Rome will be destroyed fulfilling Revelation 17 I also think that Jerusalem will be destroyed, at very least the Dome of the Rock will be taken out so they can build there 3rd temple. I see it as a very real possibility that many will be fooled into think that they are in the millennium when all this comes about. Will the fallen Angels come down and preform a fake partial rapture of the Church (as prophesied by the McDonald girl in 1830) to try and fool the rest of us into think that the rapture has happened and that now we have to keep the law and make sacrifices in the temple for our sins, only God knows. I think it more likely that if there is a seven year period of tribulation at the end of time that it will begin in the year 2029 and end in 2036 when the Asteroid Apophis (wormwood) hits the earth.

    But even that event I don’t believe will be the end, Gog Magog will be some time after that.

    God Bless

    • Cris Putnam says:

      Good Soldier,

      In the book I argue that everyone is historicist on some things and everyone is a futurist on some. Obviously Jesus has yet to return so everyone is a futurist on that – the question is where you draw the line between the two. (I think there is room for considerable overlap and we all should remain flexible, prophecy is weird and often fullfilled in unexpected ways.) I am familiar with Ribera and Lacunza but it is fallacious (genetic fallacy) to dismiss a view solely on its source. What I found very interesting is even the Jesuits agreed that Revelation 17 is about the Roman church. In fact, the Jesuit, Lacunza, actually wrote:

      Rome, not idolatrous but Christian, not the head of the Roman empire but the head of Christendom, and centre of unity of the true church of the living God, may very well, without ceasing from this dignity, at some time or other incur the guilt, and before God be held guilty of fornication with the kings of the earth, and amenable to all its consequences. And in this there is not any inconsistency, however much her defenders may shake the head. And this same Rome, in that same state, may receive upon herself the horrible chastisement spoken of in the prophecy.

      Manuel Lacunza, Edward Irving, The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty, Volume 1 (Seeley, 1827) pg. 252.

      He admitted the text pointed to the RCC, of course we believe they were already apostate back when he wrote it in 1592 but I found this very telling.

  12. john B says:

    Thanks for answering Cris; I heard it said by Tom on a Youtube video of His in connection with Apollyon rising.. So what is the the departure of which he speaks in relation to the 2Thes text? I’ll look up your archives on that passage..

    • Cris Putnam says:

      John B, It means a departure from the faith = apostasy; rebellion. It’s really not even questioned by scholars, I think it was only a few 19th century dispensationalists that tried to argue it was the rapture. I am pretty sure I changed Tom’s mind too, here’s the paper: http://www.logosapologia.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/2-Thessalonians-2-Exegetical-Research-Cris-D.-Putnam.pdf

      Here’s a good lexicon:

      ἀποστασία.

      A later construction for ἀπόστασις. The word presupposes the concept ἀποστάτης “to be an apostate,” and thus signifies the state of apostasy, whereas ἀπόστασις denotes the act. Politically an ἀποστάτης is a “rebel” (Polyb., V, 41, 6; 57, 4: τοῦ βασιλέως; Diod. S., XV, 18: τῆς πατρίδος), and this sense is retained in ἀποστασία (Plut. Galb., 1 (I, 1052e): τὴν ἀπὸ Νέρωνος ἀποστασίαν; Jos. Vit., 43: διὰ τὴν ἀποστασίαν τὴν ἀπὸ Ῥωμαίων; Ap., 1, 135 f.; Ant., 13, 219.
      In the LXX it also occurs in the political sense in 1 Esr. 2:23. It is particularly employed, however, in the religious sense, Jos. 22:22; Jer. 2:19; 2 Ch. 29:19 (the apostasy of Ahaz); 33:19 (of Manasseh). Cf. 1 Macc. 2:15 (used absol.); Asc. Is. 2:4. ἀποστάτης has also retained this religious sense, cf. Is. 30:1; 2 Macc. 5:8: Jason ὡς τῶν νόμων ἀποστάτης καὶ βδελυσσόμενος; Nu. 14:9; Jos. 22:16, 19: ἀποστάτης ἀπὸ τοῦ κυρίου.

      , vol. 1, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, ed. Gerhard Kittel, Geoffrey W. Bromiley and Gerhard Friedrich, electronic ed. (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1964-), 513.

  13. john B says:

    Hi Cris, Good paper…. You finish with these words ‘Secularization has left the world scarcely prepared for what is coming. The unbelieving world will be given over to their unbelief and ultimately judged for their actions. Ultimately, the good news is the only antidote to the strong delusion’ (Rom 10:9).

    What is your take on the new breed of teachings that the strong delusion are going to be UFO manifestations world wide..
    I take a similar stand with you that the strong delusion is wrought by the hand of God and is the giving over of the wicked (those in unbelief) into the Lie.. the Lie is definitely in the context of ‘man of Sin and His miracle working signs associated with the Apostasy..’ what I am saying is that the strong delusion will initiate bondage to the Lie God does not cause the Lie, it is the work of the enemy as is revealed “the workings of satan” but somehow God allows and maybe even produces a mental state in the minds of those given over to it..

    john B

  14. Good Soldier says:

    “In the book I argue that everyone is historicist on some things and everyone is a futurist on some.”

    I take your point but still hold to the view that the time of Jacobs trouble is 2520 years in length and not seven. I just don’t see that view as worth preaching to the Jews because I can prove that the seven times of Leviticus 26:24 is almost finished passing over them. I hold the view that the 42 months of the beast are also nearly finished, the beast being the Papal Antichrist system. Now if Popery is not the Beast then how is it that it has held temporal power for 42 prophetic months. I just don’t think that the Pope can now switch roles and become the False Prophet over night, in my view the False Prophet is Islam. But you might be right, in that we will have a literal futuristic fulfillment of the seven year trib with the False Prophet and the Beast doing there thing, but I just don’t see that view as scriptural unless it is part of the end time deception.

    In my view what we will see next will be the days of Noah or in occult belief the New Atlantis world system NWO with the watchers enslaving humanity again. It’s just my opinion but I honestly think that they will try and fulfill a literal interpretation of the book of Revelation so that the Church will believe it is in the Millennium. Satan has a plan for the end time deception and he has been setting the ground work for a long time, we will have to wait and see what transpires.

    What if we actually see the Beast and the False Prophet for 3.5 years and then a cube shaped ship lands on Mount Zion or hovers over Jerusalem in the sky while the 3rd Temple is built. If that happens I’m going to head for the hills with my family as I would see it as an end time deception like the days of Noah, because I take the book of Revelation symbolically. Most people will be fooled and will line up to get the literal fulfillment of Revelation 3:12, when it is in fact a verse that should be spirituality and symbolically interpreted. This is why dispensationalists teach the demonically inspired pre-trib rapture doctrine, so that they can have a literal fulfillment of people getting into the millennium without being glorified so that they can have a literal fulfillment of Revelation 20. Now why are they so blinded to the truth contained in scripture concerning the rapture and when Satan got bound, I put forward the hypothesis that they are deceived by Satan who is no longer on his chain and that it is part of his plan. The millennium is symbolic (like the whole of Revelation) or else the rest of the New Testament is wrong about what will happen when the Lord returns.

    Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

    Satan will come in his own name and the world will receive him and will gather together to fight the Lord when he returns. This happens after the Beast and the False Prophet are destroyed because we see in verse 10 that they are already in the lake of fire when Satan is cast into it. What I’m saying is that I think the 1000 years has expire and that the world has been preconditioned for the arrival of the watchers since 1947.

    God Bless.

  15. john B says:

    16 Jul 2011
    THE MESSIANIC TEMPLE “JEWISH FABLE”

    this is an article I wrote some time back.. it is in the theme of our discussion.

    The Temple spoken of by Jesus in Mat24 was the literal Temple ( Hieron) in the greek, signifying the entire building in existence at the Time of which Jesus foretold its destruction.
    That prophecy was fulfilled by the Armies of “Prince Titus” Son of the emperor Vespasian.
    That event was the 70Ad desolation of Jerusalem and its Temple.

    That time of distress upon that generation was also prophesied by Moses in Deu28:49-57 (look it up) also see (Josephus on the matter as he uses the vocabulary of Moses almost word for word).

    The Temple spoken of by Apostle Paul in 2Thes uses another Greek word (Naos) the inner sanctuary wherein is the presence of God.

    Apostle Paul wrote prior to 70Ad and rightly so is not referring to the litteral temple (Hieron) which was still in existence, but rather the (Naos) in association with the Final Apostasy of The end Time. It is important to be aware of this division in Time. 70Ad and the end Time.

    If one believes that the Apostasy is a falling away from the Christian faith as is evident presently by the ecumenical Spirit of antichrist via the instrumentality of the Whore… then it can be clearly understood that the temple of which Paul wrote about is not a Literal one to be built in Jerusalem.

    It must be understood that the Antichrist in association with the Apostasy is the enemy of God’s New Testament people, the Saints, Those declared Righteous by faith making up the Body of Christ upon the Earth and not the Antichrist jewish religious system still in rejection of Messiah.

    Friends: I share with you that which was always taught by men like wilcliff, wesley, and reformers of the past.

    There has been a post reformation agenda by the enemy to amalgamate all of the world religions including the jewish and unfortunately the messianic movement is part and progression of it, as it advocates that Messiah’s work is still incomplete, saying that there is a second Grace for unbelieving Jews in the future.

    Jacob’s deliverance is not to be from their enemies But from “ungodliness” SIN. Isiah59:20,2.

    The Messianic movement along with the Dardy&Schofield Twins! teaches exactly that which the jews in Pauls day taught, that Messiah was to deliver them form the oppression of Rome. Now instead, it is the Arabs that they await deliverance from.
    Furthermore; they encourage the Abominable restoration of Animal sacrifices in rejection of our High priest Jesus by re-instituting The Mosaic Leviticus priesthood.
    (((Let us have eyes to see this terrible blasphemy against the Blood of Messiah)))

    Yet Furthermore; we are told by Messianic’s that Jesus is returning to save such animal sacrificing Antichrists!

    Our Lord Jesus Christ’s work as Messiah is finished “IT IS FINISHED” was the cry as the sacrificial precious Blood shed once and for all emptied the Bread of life upon calvary’s Cross.

    There is no tomorrow, no further salvation, no second chance, there is only “TODAY! if you hear His word harden not your hearts”.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      John B,

      Here is my problem with a non-literal reading of 2 Thessalonians 2. Paul wrote 2 Thessalonians to the church in Thessalonica as a pastoral letter to correct a false view that the day of the Lord had already arrived. Thus, the context of the letter is that he wanted to reassure the fledgling church. My problem with what you are advocating (that Paul did not mean a literal temple in 2 Thess 2) is that it destroys the context of the letter to its original recipients. Paul’s original readers could not have drawn the conclusions you have. There is no hint in 1 or 2 Thessalonians that Paul intended anything other that the Holy of Holies within the still standing temple in Jerusalem – it is what the word meant and any good lexicon will bear this out:

      3485 ναός [naos /nah·os/] n m. From a primary naio (to dwell); TDNT 4:880; TDNTA 625; GK 3724; 46 occurrences; AV translates as “temple” 45 times, and “a shrine” once. 1 used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (in classical Greek it is used of the sanctuary or cell of the temple, where the image of gold was placed which is distinguished from the whole enclosure).

      James Strong, The Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible : Showing Every Word of the Text of the Common English Version of the Canonical Books, and Every Occurrence of Each Word in Regular Order., electronic ed., G3485 (Ontario: Woodside Bible Fellowship., 1996).

      To interpret the Bible properly we have to let the inspired author’s intention to his original readers being the guide. I just do not see any reason that Paul meant for the Thessalonians to understand “so that he takes his seat in the temple of God” to mean some sort of mystical allegory. He was instructing them that they should not fear that the day of the Lord had begun because this event had not yet happened. It seems incoherent that he would have used an ambiguous non-literal event in his corrective. For that reason, I believe Paul necessarily meant it to be taken literally.

  16. Good Soldier says:

    “I am familiar with Ribera and Lacunza but it is fallacious (genetic fallacy) to dismiss a view solely on its source.”

    Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    I don’t take Bible class from Antichrist!! Am I to presume that you take Ribera and Lacunza to be born again men and as such worth listening to when it comes to bible interpretation. If they were born again then why aren’t you a catholic?

    For clarification I have read a good part of Lacunza’s book and I find him to have the mark of the beast in his forehead and as such not worth wasting my time reading. I don’t plan on writing a refutation of his errors so as such I have no motivation to finish his tome.

    “Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

    Would you take theology lessons from the Pope Cris? How about a Cardinal? why take them from a Jesuit?

    Futurism and Preterism are Jesuit Counter-Reformation Doctrines that had the effect of taking the spotlight off the Pope being Antichrist. Just as the republican and democrats are the left and right wings of the Roman Eagle in the political arena likewise Futurism and Preterism are the left and right wings of Romes Theological Eagle. The truth is not a mix of the two but something else altogether. Just because the devil mixes truth with lies doesn’t make it worth read.

    God Bless

    • Cris Putnam says:

      Good Soldier, It seems to me that you missed the point entirely. My point is that even they admit the RCC is the woman the rides the beast in Rev 17. Do you disagree with that?

  17. john B says:

    Cris I don’t reckon that it destroys the context.. as the context is the Apostasy…It is within the Christian realm that the Apostasy occurs…Surely Christians to which the letter was written knew that God had finished with the literal temple having rendered apart the veiling curtain of the Holy of Holies on the day of Atonement… In the mind of Paul and believers back then and also as for us today such is the reality, that we are the Temple of His presence.. and indeed it is because of the Apostasy that the way is made for the rise of the man of sin (the son of perdition) To me that is more contextual than the Jewish connection and its temple.

    This rebuilding of a Jewish Temple is a diabolical deception founded on a misinterpretation of Jesus words in Mat24 about the abomination of desolation prophesied by Daniel which transpired in 70AD.
    The prophecy of 70 weeks is broken and the last week, The 70th is removed out of its context making it apply to The Antichrist at a future time by futurists.

    Below is the time line in context of the Daniel prophecy wit a little commenting..

  18. john B says:

    15 Mar 2010
    DANIELS 7Oth WEEK.

    A review of Daniel’s 70th week will show that The advocates of dispensationalism have removed it [the last week of the prophecy] out of it’s scriptural context Dan9:24-29.

    Thus breaking the prophetic theme by making the Last week of the prophecy to be within the Time of the end. The Theology (dispensation) has detached it from the flow of 70 continuous weeks.

    Dan9:24 reads “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, 1. to finish transgression, 2. to make an end of Sin, 3. to make Atonement for iniquity, 4. to bring in Everlasting Righteousness, 5. to seal up vision and Prophecy, 6. and to anoint the most holy place”………. Note that all of this is to take place within the 70 weeks!

    The terminal point of the sixty-nine weeks is the manifestation of the Christ to Israel by His baptism and anointing and the beginning of the Lord’s ministry.

    The 69th week brings us unto the messiah but “not unto his death”.

    He was cut Off (crucified) in The 70th week, ” Atoning for iniquity ,bringing in Everlasting Righteousness” Fulfilling the six predictions of Daniel 9:24 as noted in Vs24 above.

    This is also validated in Vs27 That He Jesus by His perfect Atonement Shall confirm the covenant with “Many” (Please see the words of Jesus at the last supper in the gospels and the Apostolic teaching on the covenant made with many).
    A portion of this verse 27 is taken out of context by implying it to Antichrist as the one making the covenant with Israel during the great tribulation period .
    The emphasis in on the word “Many” and not Israel that the covenant is made!

    The truth is; that it is Jesus The Christ which makes the New covenant with many! and not a political concordat between Antichrist and Israel.

    By His once and for all sacrifice, “In the midst of the week, HE (Jesus) shall cause the sacrifice and ablation to cease……. And on the wing of abomination will come ONE who makes desolate”…..Vs27.

    The ONE prophesied to come was The prince of vs26, Titus , Son of the Emperor Vespasian coming upon the wing of abominations in desecration of the temple and utter Destruction.70AD
    ((The ONE, is not “He” who makes the covenant with many)) The 70th week applies to Christ alone. (Read it vs 24)

    The time Span between messiah being cut off in the 70th week and the ONE to come is outside of the 70th week. It is not part of vs 24 which applies to Christ alone.

    The time span between the end of the 70th week and the ONE to come was 40 years of mercy to that nation of Jews by the Preaching of the Gospel of grace. (the calling by God to the Lost sheep of Israel (the Many) for which Jesus Had come).

    Josephus the Jewish historian gives a great account in detail of that Time of Great distress upon that people.(The generation of which Christ spoke).

    I would recommend a thorough reading of Daniel Chapter 9:24-27 without the conceived theology of modern dispensation Theory.

    Lay down the concepts of men at the cross of the one crucified in the Fullness of Time.

    (See Blog The Fullness of Time & Antichrist an Apostate in the temple)

  19. Good Soldier says:

    Dear Cris,
    “Good Soldier, It seems to me that you missed the point entirely. My point is that even they admit the RCC is the woman the rides the beast in Rev 17. Do you disagree with that?”

    They make the RCC the woman that rides the beast in Rev 17 at some undefined future 7 year period called the Great Tribulation which is not a scriptural concept, so in that context I totally disagree with them. They had a counter- reformation agenda and they succeeded in there objective. If you agree with them then you are saying that the reformers were in error when they called the Pope Antichrist. Today’s ecumenical movement is fueled by this doctrine and Catholics are not hearing the truth because of it.

    The traditionalist Catholics hold the view that the Pope is Antichrist since Vatican II but still hold to Antichrist doctrines themselves, Antipope being the word they use so that they don’t sound too much like Protestants.

    I agree with John B in everything he has said in regards to 2nd Thessalonians 2 and Daniel 9 and would also add a few things.

    2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
    2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
    2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

    Paul in this text is not talking about the Holy Spirit being taken out of the way at the rapture of the Church. He is talking about the Roman Emperor being taken out of the way and this is what the reformers believed about this text and history bears this out. We are not given the full understanding of what was told to the Thessalonians when Paul was with them but looking back we can see that the Roman Emperor was taken out of the way and the Holy Roman Empire with it’s Pontifex Maximus took it’s place and perfectly fulfills the next verses.

    2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    That Wicked being the many Popes who site in the Temple of God shewing himself that he is God. The Temple on the Holy Mount was still standing when Paul wrote his letter so if we are to take what he said on face value without having the history we have to educate us, in the context you propose the Thessalonians would have thought that Paul was telling them that the man of sin will stand in the 2nd Temple and not a future 3rd Temple. Surly if Paul thought this he would have also mention it in his letter, that the 2nd Temple must be destroyed and a 3rd one built before the man of sin can site in it.

    Gal_2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    The Body of Christ, The Bride of Christ is the New Jerusalem what comes down out of Heaven in Revelation Chapter 21. The Church is the Temple of God and all those that are in Christ are also in the Temple of God. The phrase “In Christ” is found in 77 verse in the KJV Bible and to be in Christ is to be crucified with him on the cross.

    Eph_2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

    The Holy of Holy’s was a cube and the New Jerusalem is also a cube, one of my first questions after I got save was why a cube over any other shape and only two days ago did I get the answer to that question. The Cube is a symbol for the cross, if you unfold the sides of a cube you get a cross. I am “In Christ” which means I am in the Holy of Holy’s and my sin is on the mercy seat which is Christ’s atoning sacrifice of his body on the cross which is the Temple of God. I sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus my Lord which is the mean the symbol of the cube.

    Heb_12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

    Paul was talking to Christians in his letter to the Thessalonians and as such I presume they understood what I understand when it comes to what the word Temple of God constitutes in a New Covenant context.

    Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    Be not deceived by literal fulfillment’s and interpretations of Revelation which are propagated by Antichrist Jesuit Priests and counter-reformation agents like Edward Irving and John N. Darby.

    God Bless.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      Goodsoldier, I agree with some of what you believe and disagree with other parts. Again, I think it is an exegetical fallacy to turn Paul’s teaching to the Thessalonians into a mystical allegory. It is not coherent with the intent of the letter. Similarly the term “antichrist” is often imposed onto 2 Thess in a fallacious way, I agree that many popes were certainly antichrists, no problem there. John said many antichrists had come by the first century! “Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.(1 Jn 2:18) So the term antichrist can be used in a very general sense. Sure many popes qualify for the title and I argue as such in the book. But 2 Thessalonians 2 is about a particular individual (not an institution like the papacy) the ancient manuscripts literally read ” ἄνθρωπος τῆς ἀνομίας” = “man of lawlessness” and the term ἄνθρωπος (man) is a masculine singular. If you take the inspired text seriously this refers to one particular man who appears at the beginning of the day of the Lord. Similarly, the book of Revelation describes Jesus dealing with 2 individuals and throwing them into the lake of fire. “And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.”(Re 19:20) You cannot throw institutions like the papacy into the lake of fire, for that reason it is two persons. You should prayerfully, consider that it is not reasonable to accuse everyone who see’s these as future events as being influenced by Rome. In my case, it has nothing to do with Rome (I agree they are apostate and deceptive) and everything to do with understanding the Bible in its proper context. I advocate a hybrid view of historicism and futurism which seeks to preserve the best from both schools. My reasons for holding futurist views on some passages are purely from Bible study not indoctrination into a particular school of thought. I actually incorporate elements from different schools.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      Another big problem for those who would try to argue the “man of sin” in 2 Thessalonians 2 is the papacy or a whole group of historical figures (popes) is that the text says “And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.”(2 Th 2:8) According to the inspired text – when the lawlessness one is revealed – he is the same one that Jesus will kill. It is simply impossible for this to be the popes of history, it must be a future figure present at the second coming. There is just no way you can believe the Bible and deny this in the future.

      Good Soldier & John B how can you explain this? Do you see that the Bible teaches the “man of sin” is a future figure?

  20. john B says:

    Good soldier said..’Paul in this text is not talking about the Holy Spirit being taken out of the way at the rapture of the Church. He is talking about the Roman Emperor being taken out of the way and this is what the reformers believed about this text and history bears this out’
    I agree… Apostle Paul said that they Knew what the restrainer was.. They must have been told of it by word of mouth..if Apostle was to put it in writing in the context of His letter and if it so happened to fall into the authoritative hands of Imperial Rome the consequences could be disastrous for the churches.. think of it Caesar, (the pontifex maximus) was to be taken away.. best keep it unwritten.. and it did transpire and the papal antichrist system came in…

    john B

    • Cris Putnam says:

      I also think it is strong possibility that the restrainer was the Roman empire. So does the renowned biblical scholar FF Bruce. I quote him on that view in the book.

  21. Good Soldier says:

    Dear Cris,

    I have no problem with the final Pope being the final Antichrist and have even written a blog discussing a historical interpretation of the issue (see bellow link). What I do have a problem with is the notion that he will only be in power for the second half of the seven year tribulation. He may be immortal and rule the world for five prophetic months and I haven’t figured out how long that is exactly yet, it would depend on which type of calender system is used Solar, Lunar, Gregorian or even a processional calendar. I would say 150 years is a safe estimate but if it’s five processional months it would be whole lot longer.

    To sum up my view I would hold that the beast of Revelation 13 first started to come up out of the sea in the year 533AD when the decrees went out from Justinian Declaring John, Bishop of Rome to be Chief Bishop of All the Churches but didn’t take effect until 538AD when the Ostragoths abandoned their siege of Rome — and this left the Bishop of Rome to excercise the perogatives of Justinian’s decree of 533 A.D. the power and the authority of the Papacy grew, and grew, and grew.

    Exactly 1260 years later the Papcy suffered its “deathblow.”

    The spectacular victories of the armies of Napoleon in Italy placed the Pope at the mercy of the French Revolutionary Government, which now advised that the Roman Religion would always be a persistant enemy of the Republic. The government urged Napoleon to destroy the center of unity of the Roman church, and Napoleon did just that. In 1798 the French general Berthier, with a French army, marched into Rome and proclaimed the political rule of the Papcy at an end and took the Pope prisoner. The Pope was removed to France where he died in exile. The 1260 year rule of the Papacy was finished.

    538AD + 1260years = 1798AD and his deadly wound was heal in 1929!!

    The Lateran Treaty is one of the Lateran Pacts of 1929 or Lateran Accords, three agreements made in 1929 between the Kingdom of Italy and the Holy See, ratified June 7, 1929, ending the “Roman Question”. Italy was then under a Fascist government; the succeeding Italian governments have all upheld the treaty.
    The pacts consisted of three documents:
    A political treaty recognising the full sovereignty of the Holy See in the State of Vatican City, which was thereby established.
    A concordat regulating the position of the Catholic Church and the Catholic religion in the Italian state. A financial convention agreed on as a definitive settlement of the claims of the Holy See following the losses of its territories and property.

    ROME, Feb. 11.–The Pope is again an independent sovereign ruler, as he was throughout the Middle Ages, though his temporal realm, established today, is the most microscopic independent State in the world, and probably the smallest in all history. — THE NEW YORK TIMES, Tuesday, February 12, 1929.

    The 8th King the Son of Predition
    Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

    1. Pope Pius XI (Latin: Pius PP. XI; Italian: Pio XI; 31 May 1857 – 10 February 1939)
    2. The Venerable Pope Pius XII (Latin: Pius PP. XII; Italian: Pio XII) from 2 March 1939 until his death in 1958.
    3. Blessed Pope John XXIII (Latin: Ioannes PP. XXIII; Italian: Giovanni XXIII), from 1958 until his death in 3 June 1963
    4. Paul VI (Latin: Paulus PP. VI; Italian: Paolo VI) from 21 June 1963 until his death on 6 August 1978
    5. John Paul I (Latin: Ioannes Paulus PP. I, Italian: Giovanni Paolo I) from 26 August 1978 until his death 33 days later
    6. Blessed Pope John Paul II (Latin: Ioannes Paulus PP. II, Italian: Giovanni Paolo II, Polish: Jan Pawel II)from 1978 until his death in 2005
    7. Benedict XVI (Latin: Benedictus PP. XVI; Italian: Benedetto XVI; German: Benedikt XVI. celebrated his Papal Inauguration Mass on 24 April 2005 “he must continue a short space.” Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi has dismissed reports published by an Italian newspaper that Pope Benedict XVI plans to resign from the papacy in 2012. But they could kill him like they did John Paul I. A ritual sacrifice to bring in the Beast.
    8. Petrus Romanus the 8th King the final Antichrist? we will have to wait and see!!

    The 131 year gap of temporal power is an interesting conundrum when considering the 752/6AD start date for the Kingdom-ship of the beast apposed to the 538AD rising up out of the sea start date for the 42 prophetic months. It is possible that these years were taken out of the 42 months and then added to the end giving us the year 2143/7 for the end date of both the 42 months and the five months of revelation chapter 9.

    Compared to the perfectly fulfilled 42months from 538AD to 1978AD we are still watching the next time line of the prophesy unfold before us and are still guessing as to when it will end exactly but when it ends will be so obvious to those that are in Christ that I need not expound it hear.

    http://goodsoldierofjesuschrist.blogspot.com/

    Hope this helps!!

    God Bless.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      I think we can agree that God is big enough to have these prophecies fulfilled in more than one way. Many OT prophecies had a short and long range fulfillment. This is why I advocate a hybrid of futurism and historicism, I think we are wise to take the best (most biblically coherent) parts from both schools of thought. For instance in the book I present a case that 1260 days can work as years (historicsm) while also delineating the 3.5 literal years prior to Christ’s return. I believe that there are two levels being worked out in the prophecies and that this level of providence reveals God’s sovereignty and glory. Thanks for all of your comments!

  22. john B says:

    Cris; I share a little more insight on this matter…Good soldier; thanks for sharing these Time lines.. I do not know about the immorality factor of the beast.. I go more for the satanic possession of the man of sin (son of perdition) such was the case with Judas “satan entered him” I see the similarity in the title, they are both referred as the “son of perdition”.. the former betrayed Christ, and the latter betrays the Apostolic founded Faith of Christ by “The Apostasy”
    This Apostasy is like no other as it will bring in the world to worship satan in the most deceptive way by the image of the ecumenical God of ones choice.. the subtleness of it all!

    “And i saw another Beast coming out of the earth and He had Two Horns like a Lamb, and He spoke as a Dragon. And he exercises all the power of the First beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed” Rev13:11,12
    ,I believe that we are in the short time of Satan’s loosening and will soon see the Beast’s new image system enforced begin to exercise Power and speak, those who refuse to cooperate will be killed in The ‘new dark ages’ to encompass the whole earth. For indeed “Great darkness shall cover the Earth”
    “And he exercises all the power of the First beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed” Rev13:12. I also see a strong correlation with Apollyon the beast from the Pit who puts to death the two witnesses and the first seven headed beast that rises from the sea…could this be the possession factor? Scripture seems to indicate that these Two beasts are the same!

    The Dark ages wherein the Mother Harlot Spirit became intoxicated on the blood of the martyrs as she declared an “open season” on all people she labeled as heretics is to be resurrected in these End-Times.

    During the dark ages The [combination of catholic clergy-men and church empowered civil-servants] put to death over 50 million souls.

    We must see clearly as we encounter each new facet of the end-time.

    Currently Smoke screens are distracting many sincere Christians to the reality of satan’s Whorish strategies in giving rise to the “eighth head of the beast” [that final stage of the Beast’s civil and religious governmental system] to enforce the worship of The Image by the authority of the Two horned Lamb-Dragon mixture Beast.Rev13:15.

    A Lamb & A Dragon! what a deceptive combination. The mixing of Two incompatible Natures!
    Never before has their been such drive of purpose and efforts to unite all the religious systems of the earth.

    Presently; The innocent Lamb phase is still being projected.
    However; The Great Whore Spirit is working behind the scenes to Quietly use Her ” Church & State” energies To lay Legislative & Religious programs within the “hearts and minds” of people so that the earth is conditioned for The (((VOICE))) of the Dragon to Speak again as a Tyrant in the new dark age.
    Anyone who stands for the Word of God’s Absolutes And Righteousness will have no place in the Beast system. Be Warned!

    john B

  23. Good Soldier says:

    Hi John B,
    “I go more for the satanic possession of the man of sin (son of perdition) such was the case with Judas “satan entered him”

    I agree with the Satanic possession of the son of perdition and my immortality idea comes from this verse.
    Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

    If your view is correct then the United State of America is a prime candidate for the second Beast of Revelation 13 as the beast comes up out of the earth which is symbolic of a land that was sparsely populated. Chris Pinto’s 4 documentary’s on the subject of the occult nature of the founding of the USA and it’s New Atlantis ideals are well worth watching in regards to this topic. What he doesn’t mention in his films is the Historicist interpretation of the dates and timing of the founding of America yet I know he holds to this system of interpretation.

    the 1700’s are a very interesting time period which begins with a possible fulfillment of Revelation 9:1.
    Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

    The Comet of 1729, also known as C/1729 P1 or Comet Sarabat, was a non-periodic comet with an absolute magnitude of −3,[2] the brightest ever observed for a comet;[3] it is therefore considered to be the largest comet ever seen.[4]

    The Comet of 1729 was discovered on the 1st of august 1729 and then it was lost sight of on the 18th of January 1730 that 171 days of observation, by which time the comet was located in Vulpecula. Vulpecula ( /vʌlˈpɛkjʊlə/) is a faint constellation in the northern sky. Its name is Latin for “little fox”, although it is commonly known simply as the fox. It was identified in the seventeenth century, and is located in the middle of the Summer Triangle (an asterism consisting of the bright stars Deneb, Vega and Altair). FOX = 666. F = 6. O = 15 = 1+5 = 6. X = 24 = 2+4 = 6. FOX = 666

    After 1729 we see revolution after revolution right up until this day. I’m still not sure what the five months signify’s or what the “hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men”. maybe it be interpreted as 1 month, 1 year, 30 year and 360 years prophetically = 391 years and one month we won’t know for sure until the year 2120AD or if we take into account the five months = 150 years + 391 years = 2270AD or the year 6030 in the Hebrew calender. What I do know is that the Satanist that run the US, EU and the UN are planing to kill at least the third part of men with Agenda 21.

    I’m not sure if any of this is correct but it’s what I’ve been researching since I last posted so take this whole rant as me just think out loud.

    God Bless.

  24. john B says:

    Good soldier; I still hold that the second beast is the “man of sin”..
    I understand the figures of Rev as symbolical for powers, that is not to say as you say that there be a leading personage, the last pope… Pagan Rome had a multitudes of Gods.. NOW!….. presently, we have this in the ecumenical fold of the whore (satan’s harlot) in opposition to the bride of Christ!… Think of image worship here!!

    Behold; The Three great actors in the Last drama of Earth’s history!

    1.The Dragon, the real power behind it all, though invisible in the spirit realm.

    2. The 1st Beast; The Roman Empire, still existing in its Iron framework of civil Government, and now in process of assuming its final Ten-Horned Form.

    3. The 2nd Beast-False Prophet; The papacy, with its vast organization and its steadfast political aims of procuring The Holy Roman Empire via the European Union.

    Notes on the 2nd Beast:
    There is no doubting that the Papacy did arise during the course of existence of the Roman Empire.
    It is a system of Religious Character and political aims which came in close alliance from it’s very start with the Roman Empire (The 1st Beast) Symbolically represented by its ‘Sixth head’ (One is) which was active in the days of Apostle John.Rev 17:10

    The Papacy presented itself as the embodiment of true Christianity in the Guise of “a Lamb, but speaking as a dragon and Exercising all the power of The 1st Beast before Him” Rev13:11,12.

    It is said of this 2nd Beast; 1.”He had two horns like a Lamb”
    The occupant of The Papal Seat pretentiously assumed the Guise of a representative of Jesus Christ (The Lamb Of God)
    2.”He spake as a Dragon” That inwardly the occupant of that Seat as shown by the Voice proceeding from within, that His purpose is identically that of the Dragon Itself, whose objective is to have dominion over all of the peoples on Earth Rev13:16. using the Two horns of Religio-Political, Exercising the Spiritual & Temporal Power upon the Earth.
    Here we have “the Depth of Satan” Rev2:24. (A Counterfeit of the Kingdom of God)

    So closely was the association in the beginning of the papacy to the Roman Empire, that the Capital of the Empire (Rome) has been also the seat of the Papacy.

    The root of the Papal system can be traced to the Emperor Constantine 323 AD. Although It is sure to say that The mystery of iniquity birthed it prior to that Time.

    The claims of the Papacy were carried to the Limit of extremism by Pope Boniface V111.
    He proclaimed a Jubilee for the year 1300 wherein, during the festivities he appeared before the multitudes with Sword,Crown & sceptre, exclaiming, ‘I am Caesar! I am Emperor!’ The Title ‘Pontifex Maximus’ claimed by the pope also belonged To Caesar.

    In His famous Bull (Unam Sanctam) Boniface wrote; [We declare announce and define, that it is altogether necessary to salvation for every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff]
    This Bull (a canonical Law) of The Catholic church is still valid Today! Rev13:6.

    It was the enforcement of that Law that brought about The Bloody Inquisition of the Middle Ages.

  25. Good Soldier says:

    The Club of Rome has divided the world into the ten horned system. Unam Sanctam has been challenge by the New Age Jesuit co-agitator Frank O’Collins from Australia, he has channeled the covenant of One Heaven from what he calls the Unique Collective Awareness which is just another name for Satan. Legally the Vatican have surrendered ownership of all the creatures to this covenant of One Heaven buy not responding to his legal notice. The guy is well worth researching, his web site is one-heaven.org he has also channeled a new charter for the United Nations and if you know anything about there connection to Lucis/Lucifer Trust and the implementation of Alice Baileys channeled book Externalization of the Hierarchy then you will see why I take his claims seriously.

    I don’t disagree with your take on the beasts, I like to keep looking at the information from different view points to see if they work out or if there is a whole in the argument. I want to find proof the most because God tells us how long these beasts are going to last so we should know by looking at the dates whether a prophesy if fulfilled. I’m still a very young Christian and it’s hard to find local people to talk to about this stuff as they just don’t have the same interest as I do and are locked into systems of interpretation that are just wrong. This in my view is the work of Satan because God is not the author of the confusion that I find in the body of Christ. I pray every day Lord just show me the truth, I don’t care how much it costs me persecution in my local Church. Joh_8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    Thank you both John and Cris for engaging me in this conversation.
    1Th_5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

    God Bless.

  26. john B says:

    Thanks Good soldier, I’ll look into this Frank O’collins.. I take it that his name is enough to google the site..

    Something that I noticed is this; The text similarity of 2Thes2:9 and Rev13:13,14.

    The former pertains to the Man of sin and the latter to the false prophet.

    I, like yourself am not satisfied with the common methods of prophetic interpretation specially dispensationalism! and also pray that the truth be revealed. I have enjoyed our exchange with Cris.. I would still like a respond from him to my question on the new teaching about the UFO’s how it is said that it will be the strong delusion.

    Your view on this would be appreciated Cris.

    victory in Jesus
    john B

  27. Good Soldier says:

    Hi Cris,

    I agree that there could possibly be an end time 3.5 years and I can even see a typology for that interpretation in the 3.5 year roman invasion and subsequent destruction of the 2nd Temple in the year 66AD to 70AD.

    But I can prove historicity were as I can only hypothesize over the future. I even hope that the rapture is pre trib and that others besides Christians get into the millennium through the repenting during the tribulation doorway that dispensationalist believe in, but I just don’t see it in the scriptures. It just makes no sense to me that Peter can say “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. ” and yet somehow un-transfigured people get into the Millennium and after the thousand years are up they go to war against the saints at Gog and Magog. If we accept a literal 3.5 years then the door is open to a literal Millennium and a literal Millennium brings up all sorts of scriptural contradictions with what is said in the rest of the New Testament.

    I might be wrong and if I am I’ll be happy, but if I’m right then the danger is that we could been shown a drama designed to fool the church into thinking it is in the Millennium. Didn’t our Lord Jesus warn us: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if possible, even the elect.

    Satan knows the bible inside out and surly he know that if he can make the Church believe it is in the Great Tribulation and then abduct a few million people to make it look like the rapture has happened that he will be able to present himself as the Christ and sit in the Temple of God showing himself that he is God. I think it will be five prophetic months and then an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, (what ever that means) before the Lord returns as depicted in Revelation chapter 10.

    I do hope you warn the Church of this possible deception in your upcoming book.

    God Bless.

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