Ceasar’s Messiah Conspiracy Theory is Easily Refuted

Gallio Inscription

Gallio Inscription

A sensational headline is making its way around the internet: Ancient Confession Found: ‘We Invented Jesus Christ.’ Accordingly, I have received quite a few messages about this new “Covert Messiah” claim by conspiracy theorist Joseph Atwill. This is actually old hat from Atwill who authored the book Ceasar’s Messiah back in 2005.  The overall thesis is that the Roman Emperor Titus conspired to invent a new religion that would pacify the population rendering them easy to govern. As Atwill spins his yarn, Titus enlisted the help of Flavius Josephus who left various clues in his works that Atwill has ever so shrewdly decoded for us less perceptive readers.  Of course, this raises lots of obvious questions about why the Roman’s were feeding Christian to the lions and banishing them from Rome as recorded by Suetonius. But more fundamentally, it seems that Atwill misunderstands Jesus:

When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That’s when the ‘peaceful’ Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to ‘give onto Caesar’ and pay their taxes to Rome.[1]

The fact that the Roman’s were the ones that crucified Jesus seems to escape Atwill.  A superficial reading of the Gospels might seem to support his conspiracy theory but Jesus was fundamentally hostile to the pagan world system.  He was not, and is not, a pacifist. Speaking of Jesus, the book of Revelation strongly controverts the claim:

“From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.”(Re 19:15)

This passage from the Gospel of Matthew below hardly fits the profile that Atwill attempts to shoehorn Jesus into:

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.”(Mt 10:34–37)

Jesus asked for unqualified allegiance, something even the most venerated rabbi did not claim. The central point of the teaching above is that love of God and his kingdom must take precedence over every other human relationship including the Roman Empire. This is why the early Christians were willing to lay down their lives rather than worship Caesar as a god. This is why Paul was martyred (interestingly before Atwill’s theory has even been launched) and that fact brings up the most egregious fallacy in the theory: he assumes Jesus was “created” post AD 70.

Archeologists have dated many of Paul’s letters long before AD 70. 1 Corinthians is a prime example containing data that solidly dates to around AD 55. He wrote it from Ephesus during his third missionary journey. Paul was nearing the end of his stay and making plans to leave (1 Cor. 16:5–8).  We can be certain of the date because Paul appeared before the Roman governor Gallio in Achaia in Acts 18:12–17, and his appearance, probably in AD 51, provides a firm date for determining the chronology of his ministry. A statue with an inscription preserves the fact the Gallio served in the region from AD 51-53 a detail consistent with Paul’s writings. This undesigned coincidence demonstrates the authenticity of Paul’s letter to the Corinthians which amongst other things, discusses Jesus resurrection from the dead, the central truth claim of the Gospel.

This inscription places Paul in front of  procounsul Gallio between AD 51-53.

This inscription places Paul in front of procounsul Gallio between AD 51-53.

For this reason, even the most critical scholars date 1 Corinthians to AD 55.  1 Corinthians 15:3-7 contains the account of the resurrection a full eighteen years before Atwill’s conspiracy theory was said to be launched. This video explains an early creed that falsifies the Ceasar’s Messiah hypothesis:

This latest “discovery” appears to be an attempt to revive the largely discredited and dismissed conspiracy theory.  Atwill’s new evidence is to be revealed October 19th. I expect that historians and scholars will shred it in a matter of days.


[1] “Ancient Confession Found: ‘We Invented Jesus Christ’” http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/10/prweb11201273.htm

About Cris Putnam
Logos Apologia is the ministry of Cris D. Putnam. The mission of Logos Apologia is to show that logic, science, history and faith are complementary, not contradictory and to bring that life-changing truth to everybody who wants to know.


  1. jamie says:

    Very well written article. I am a seeker of truths.

  2. Coincidentally, I posted an article about Atwill last night. I am going to share your article for everyone to read in Bible Prophecy Study Group. It is very detailed and worth the read! The fact is that Jesus and His followers were mentioned over 20 times by various historians and politicians from the Roman world and the Talmud even mentions Christ eight times and not once did the Jews deny His existence, which you would think would be the best authority to believe if you were a secularist. Great work, Cris!

  3. Pete Bass says:

    Thanks so much for keeping us armed and “ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;”

    There is always someone coming along trying to undermine Jesus and the gospel. Whether it is to cast doubt that He had ever lived to begin with, or that He did not rise from the dead or that he got married, moved to India, had kids and died of old age, there is no end to the attacks.

    I know the first account of the hope that is in me is the fact that Jesus changed me from an addicted dope dealer that lived only for myself to a person that cares about others and lives a sober life in gratitude for Him doing what I could not do on my own.

    Next, I have His word which teaches me how to live my life in a way I never understood was possible. It also shows me through prophesy that He is faithful and true to keep his word.

    Science is in harmony with the Bible and archeology bears out the facts. Many people have tried to change dates, or say places, people or things did not exist only to be repudiated a short time later when God allows a dig to find the very evidence that blows that fallacy out of the water. I find God’s timing to be divinely humorous!

    These days when the internet, TV and easy authorship make it possible for most anyone to tear at our faith, it is good to have scholars quickly debunk the issues and arm us for our defense.

    Thanks again Cris for keeping us informed.

  4. Steve says:

    There is also a new book out by a writer at sott.com that claims the “myth” of Jesus is based on the life of Julius Ceaser. I can’t give anymore details because I don’t have the info handy, but these various Jesus debunkers always miss the main point of the Incarnation. They always reduce Jesus to a political figure of some sort. I wish I had the author’s name but I don’t.

  5. louthesaint says:

    There will be no doubt as to the reality of who Jesus was when He appears on that Day 2Tim4:1

    What a fearful Day that shall be for all the ungodly those whohave spoken against Him Jude15

  6. Were there two Jesus’? Of course not, that’s silly, however…

    Were there two narratives? Yes. The ancient Christians were followers of The Way. This included the original concept of being ‘born again of the spirit’… which originally meant reincarnation(believe it or not, I care not)… This was part of what Jesus taught ‘privately’, it was called The Gnosis, or Divine Knowledge. This, is what Rome killed, outlawed and forbid, that which they called; HERETIC.

    Those who think that ‘they invented Jesus’ misunderstand the context, as usual they think literally… the Roman church REinvented Jesus by the outlawing of 95% of His teachings by replacing them with the personal correspondence of Paul.
    Are the doctrines of Paul, and Jesus in sync? Or are they the basis of a divided book, our book, the Bible? (You know, Rome WROTE it, right?)

    This was the effort of reinventing Jesus, and what the Arian Conspiracy and all the wars against the ‘heretics’ and Gnostics was about… the New Church of Rome needed a new narrative, that kept the people in ‘submission to Godly authority’… this was the basis of the Babylonian Mystery Religion, and The System of Babylon; The money changers, the King, and the Priests, together as One, this should sound familiar. It is our system, the system of Nebuchadnezzar’s statue, the Head of Gold on the two legs of ideology. The head that makes the rules, that he who has the gold makes the rules. A system invented by elites for The Elite.

    Revelations, and the Gospel of John, were Gnostic books, the only two that survived the Canonization process. Revelations was a message and a warning to the Church that didn’t exist when it was penned…

    It is primarily against the Mother of Harlots, who rides the Beast of ten horns. But if she is the Roman Church, then who, are the Daughters? Why is she named MYSTERY? What of the MYSTERY Doctrine of the Churches? Is it the same thing? It is, when compared to the concept of the Knowledge of God in the Gnosis, against the MYSTERY of God in the Churches. Are we united, or divided? Where does the division come from? Divided doctrines? Thus the protest-ants, the daughters of the Church of Rome, took her book, and divided it even further by the use of the Mystery Doctrine.

    Were all of the Churches condemned by the Saint John, a Gnostic? Was the Church age, an age of bloodshed in “The Name of God”? Well, then the horsemen of the apocalypse becomes clear. The Lesson of the Tens becomes clearer. The lesson of the Tens is the lesson of the Ten lost tribes, the people who went north into the Caucasus mountains from Babylon and became; The Caucasian race. The True Israel. The Ten horns are the shofars of the Leaders of the Whites who run the world. The Ten toes of iron and clay are the tribes divided in mind and emotions. The ten virgins are the ignorant and the smart.

    When the prophecies are seen in the Gnosis, of God’s Time, we see a different picture. We see the white horse of the Holy Roman empire, projecting power at a distance conquering in the name of God. We see the red horse as the time of kings, that descended in rivers of blood by the sword. The black horse then came as the bankers, with black greedy hearts, balancing power and justice with the scales of their money. Then, the ride stops, and money fails for the whole globe. We are left in a time of taking a days wage to buy a loaf of bread, while the rich live lavishly and treat us as slaves, again. We, who went ‘into the wilderness, on the great wings of an eagle’, to escape the persecution of Rome…

    Then the time of the Pale Green horse comes, a quarter of the planet of those who worship death. The Catholics never saw a green horse, and they changed the words of the prophecy, you only see it if you read the original Greek. May the curse be upon them. For the color green, of those who worship death, is also a known color, the color of Islam. The horsemen of the apocalypse, are the paradigms of change.

    The entire prophecy turns on the bad interpretations of preachers, before it was time for them to know. The word ‘them’ in 6:8, means them, the last horse is a People, a quarter of the planet, who worships death, and hell follows them. Is there any way to survive the Pale Green horse?

    The Revelation is come, the New Gnosis, the Truth of the Unified Field of God, at the Nexus of Science and Religion. The Knowledge of God that conquers the Mystery of God. The revealing of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, anchored in the Grail of Enoch, validated by the math of Einstein. The Oldest Truth becomes New Again, what the Lord taught ‘privately’ is found in the sands of time, by His Will.

    You are the Son’s of God, trapped in dark energy, and to find our Way Home, to the Light, requires the Knowledge of The Way of the Messiah. The Truth will set you free.

    The Vision quest of the Piper,
    plays a new song,
    for the chorus to sing,
    and the people dance,
    so the forest will echo with laughter.

    PS: To those who wish to pronounce ‘New Age’ on The Way, we admonish you and rebuke thee, to understand the way of the Church is Mystery, the way of the Hidden in Darkness.

    May His Light be upon you.
    Piper Michael

    • cyberpriest says:

      Your a ripe Nut!

      • Your ridicule fills me, since only truth draws ridicule from the true heretics, the orthodoxy and the Mystery Mongers…

        • cyberpriest says:

          There are those who uphold scriptural truth in accord with The established Foundation Eph2:20
          and there are others who hold the Name of Jesus whilst morphing into a ‘foreign Knowledge’ 1Tim4:1

          The thrust of Gnostic doctrine is -salvation through secret knowledge- They do not look to the Cross of Christ for salvation but only to self enlightenment…

          • You are so wrong. On so many levels.
            They believe in the self enlightenment, through WORKS, following The WAY.
            The Way of course, following The Light out of Darkness of this Universe.
            But, Paul, screwed it all up as the 13th False Apostle.
            His Anti-Christ gospel ABOUT Christ, instead of the Gospel OF Christ.
            This concept is what has you all divided, in denominations, arguing and going to war over ‘doctrines of devils’, dots and tittles….
            Continue on… It doesn’t matter anymore.
            The Unified Field of God, is Knowledge that conquers the MYSTERY of The Mother of Harlots.
            She and her DAUGHTERS, are nothing but ‘old dry bones’, already experiencing the Great Falling away of the Faith, because of their superstitious nonsense in competition with science. The Spiritual evolved have left your silly churches exegesis behind.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      Piper Michael, It’s hard to take you seriously when you make silly comments like “it was written by Rome.” Apparently,you have been misled by Catholic propaganda. You shouldn’t take their history at face value. Rome was only a regional church for hundreds of years. Rome did not even decide the NT cannon that was don by two African councils. Rome was informed after the fact. There was no Roman dominance until long after Constantine in the fourth century but even then the East and West split. Gnosticism came long after the fact as well and is also largely based on very late fictional accounts of Jesus.

      • Chuckles says:

        A timely article, Cris, thanks.

        It’s interesting how Rome’s re-writing of Church history works for them (sometimes), but also against them. Trouble is, when their false history works against them it also does damage to the gospel. People are either taken in by Rome’s self-serving claims (“original church”, indeed) or they reject biblical truth just because “the RCC believes that!!”

        Of course, we’ve seen instances of both errors posted in some replies on this site. So far though, I think Piper Michael has won the “Captian Mis-Informed” trophy.

        • Chuckles says:

          Captian? Captain? An ignorant troll by any other name…

          Imagine–if such weird and deranged ideas as those emitted by PM are held now–how bad it will be during Daniel’s 70th Week, when the restrainer has been “taken out of the way”.

          We are so close…

          • Yes, fortunately, in your case, I do not have to imagine…
            Your churches are nothing but seething houses of justification for sin, backed by mysteries that now make you irrelevant and soon, the socialists and Moooslims will come for you. You will deserve to suffer on the altar of your hypocrisies, apathy and complacency. The same fate as the Jews, and for the same reasons.
            So smug and self righteous.
            Destroyers and pretenders, worshiping your god… mammon.

          • jaz says:

            Hey Piper: put a sock in it. you are the self righteous accuser, wishing ill upon others.
            Go and worship the light within.

          • @jaz,
            After 1600 years of self righteous accusing, you accuse me?
            The fire comes from the mouth of the witnesses, get used to it.
            The revenge of the Heretics is here.

            yes, I’m done with you

      • What is a “Captian”? IS that the 4th century spelling for Captain? It is what I expect from 4th century minds.

        The Gospel was written by ‘those people’ who WERE NOT the Original Church, just the Victor who wrote history. After they killed everybody else…

        Glad to see you are one who still believes their bs. They are not about the truth of Jesus, they are about the truth of rich men keeping the people in submission to ‘Godly authority’, through mystery and divided doctrines of superstitious 4th century nonsense.

        Spiritual Relativity supersedes the Churches, by Revealing the Original Truth;
        That The Golden Rule is the Way to the Light.

      • @Cris Putnam,
        You are misinformed.
        Were fragments of Enoch found in the Dead Sea scrolls?
        The Gnostic philosophy preceded the Church of Rome by thousands of years. It is also in the philosophies of many ancient cultures of the East, in India, and the Aztec culture. They are together known as The Perennial Philosophy. The Magi were philosophers of the Gnosis as well as astrology.

        The 3 Primal forces of Creation, are present in all the ancient philosophies, that were stolen and bastardized in The False Trinity. I Suggest you look up the Council of Nicaea and the synods. To say the Canon was not defined by Rome is merely ignorance. They RE wrote IT, by banning and outlawing many of the ancient tomes it was based upon, including Enoch. Read Origen, who said the new Church need a ‘simpler narrative’ for the Peasant class.

        The narrative they came up with, was full of errors and conundrums. Due to the influence of the 13th False Apostle, Paul. That’s kinda why, its called Pauline Christianity. The Anti-Christ Church, that teaches a false gospel, a blasphemy of worshiping the son and thinking He will wash you in His blood and save you from your sin. He never said any of that, it was invented out of whole cloth by Paul and the Church. While His teachings were declared HERETIC. His Vesture, will wash your ‘dirty linen’, but you may not like it. This is a thing Catholics got right, the concept of Purgatory. Otherwise, your karma is you and you may have to be ‘born again of the spirit’.

        As long as you are in love with the scriptures, and only the Canon, you will be locked in the Mystery of Rome.
        And like the Pharisees, you will not see the spiritual evolution of the New Revelation come.

        I am, the Revenge of the Heretics. The Saints killed by your church.
        The Revelation is come, the Divine Knowledge of God, that conquers, so the “The Mystery of God is finished.”
        Your ridicule fills me with joy, because the Way of Truth is ridicule.

        • louthesaint says:

          Piper said [thinking He will wash you in His blood and save you from your sin]

          Here it is from the mouth of Jesus Himself Mat26:28

          And from Apostle Peter, 1Pet1:18,19

          There is no [New revelation come] as you infer. But only the promised inheritance of the righteous in Christ and the condemnation of the wicked in Hell-Fire.

          • louthesaint says:

            The Jews rejected Christ and persecuted His Apostle Paul..
            It was in Rome that Paul was imprisoned and died Acts 28:17
            The Rome that also persecuted the early church, and the same Rome from which arose Mystery Babylon the great when Constantine injected Pagan concepts to form Roman catholicism.

          • Ah, the voice of MYSTERY.
            From this same Peter who castigated Mary Magdalene? He being the primary who hated her because she was a GIRL?

            He and his ‘church’, who turned her from Priestess into Prostitute?
            That Peter?

            right. Enjoy your MYSTERY of Rome, it doesn’t matter any more.
            Your church has become ‘old dry bones’ speaking Mysteries of the 4th century, that no longer find following because of their Hypocrisies and Doctrines of Devils.

            The spiritual evolution has come, the New Revelation is arrived, in the lady of 12 stars in her crown, clothed in the light of the sun while standing upon the moon. The lady has a name, the Pistis Sophia, the Aeon(angel) of Wisdom, and her name was taught by the Christ, and your church, burned it and declared it HERETIC.

            Let the Curse of Revelation be upon your church, for changing the words of the Gnostic prophecy of John. That the White Horse was the Holy Roman Empire, the Red horse was the Kings, and the Black horse was the black heart of greed in the money changers and democracies, giving the Appearance of balancing power and justice. The black horseman will fail, and you will work a day for a loaf of bread, while the rich become your masters.

            That the next horse to ride is the Pale Green horse, not yellow. That the words were changed into blasphemy, is revealed in the original Greek. Read and understand, or go thy way, and bother me no more.

            The Revelation was a message and a WARNING to the Church, that was not, yet is, and shall end at the proper dividing of time. Which also the Catholic failed to set properly. The Zero year is 34 years to early, the True Millennium comes in 20 more years, as the darkness was passed into in 2012.

            The Time of Jacobs trouble now comes, and Jacob means, all 12 tribes shall suffer for their folly, their apathy, for making evil to be good, and good to be evil, and there being no justice upon the Earth.

            I care nothing of your mysteries. Your moral authority is done on the altar of your hypocrisies.

        • James says:

          Piper Michael, If I may without a doubt you suffer from the paralysis of analysis. You need the Savior. A Jew on the road to Damascus was given mysteries from the Risen Savior, which had never been revealed. You need to master this one 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

          • Paul was very good with “I” stuff… “I” preached this, and “I” preached that…
            But, what did the Lord preach?
            How will you ever know, since your church burned it, and declared it “Heretical”…

            I follow The Way. What He taught. Even Paul’s words were edited by the Harlot. Or have you ever read the Apocalypse of Paul? Have you ever read anything outside the Official Canon? No… probably not…

            Enjoy your mysteries, like I said, it doesn’t matter any more. Your churches are dying, drowning in their own hypocrisy and doctrines of devils that allow men to sin and think they are ‘saved’ from it… thus, they continue on raping and pillaging the Earth for profits… but, but, that’s just business, right?

            Uh huh…
            What does your canon say about the rich men destroying the Earth?
            That is why I condemn all the followers of the Harlot of Rome.
            Their entire religiosity is simplified religious sounding words, to mollify their physical lusts.
            You are all hypocrites and victims of hypocrites.

    • ralph ellis says:

      >>Who is the Mother of Harlots, who’s name is; MYSTERY?

      Easy. She is the city of Rome – the city on seven hills. That is why this chapter says that ‘she is a city’. The clue is in the verses.

      And why did she burn? Because Nero let her burn in AD 64. This is all historical information, if you did but read it properly, but you need to readjust your outlook to the AD 60s.

      Next question….

      Please read “King Jesus” or “Jesus, King of Edessa” for further information.


      • Such a literal mind…
        Yes, she is a city, and a church and an empire, and a MOTHER.
        Does a ‘city’ speak and spread blasphemy?

        You, me, all of God’s children are a victim of her MYSTERY and blasphemy.
        You guys never answer the hard questions.
        Its all just a ‘mystery’.

        • ralph ellis says:

          >>Does a ‘city’ speak and spread blasphemy?

          Of course it does. You don’t think that the Jews or the Nazarene Jews approved of Rome and its secular administration or its polytheistic ways, which were slowly spreading through Judaea?

          As it says in 17:18:
          “And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.”

          So the woman was a city, and that city reigned over the kings of the known world – the ‘Mother of Harlots’ was Rome and the Roman Empire.

          Indeed, she ruled over Judaea and Edessa, and that was unacceptable to the Nazarene Jews of Edessa and Judaea. So they started a revolt against Rome – the Jewish Revolt of AD 68-70 – the revolt that ended up wit the destruction of Jerusalem.


          • The book of Revelation was a Gnostic work… period.
            It was a message, and a warning to the Church… period.
            The Mother of Harlots, is the church that controls that city, and the empire, and the world. Period.

            She still rides the Beast of ten horns. Period.
            And she is the Mother, and the Daughters are the Protestants. Period.
            The literal mind, ignores the many levels of interpretation, historical, physical, spiritual and symbolic, prophetical and cyclical. What was true in Rome, is true in America, the rich run the show, the poor are always with us… the Head of Gold makes the Rule of Gold. Which has been with us since the days of Babylon. And the Churches are the Harlot that rides the Beast of government, teaching the people to ‘submit to Godly authority’… where is Godliness in governments? What about the lesson of Samuel and Saul? That God did not want the house of Israel to have a King? Government is not a ‘Godly enterprise’, nor is it sanctioned by GOD! It is EVIL! Only America Tried, but failed, like all the rest. If you don’t believe that, then enjoy paying the Obamacare TAX, forcing you to MURDER THE UNBORN, and enable FREE hedonism.

            You are all entitled to your ancient superstitions, as old dry bones, the great falling away has been happening for some decades… and you can’t see why.
            People no longer want mystery, they want science and facts. We have evolved spiritually, the churches have become the Jews, pharisees, hashing over ancient interpretations of misinterpreted writings of men, pretending that personal correspondences of men, are the writings of God.
            Your ‘church fathers’ even burned the words of the Lord, and turned His favorite into a Whore.
            This was Peter’s influence, he who hated the Magdalene.
            But, as the Victors who write history, you have only ever known one side.

          • Cris Putnam says:

            The book of Revelation was a Gnostic work

            It was composed before gnosticism existed. Your statement has no evidence and no basis in history or the text.

          • Ralph ellis says:

            >>(Revelations) was composed before gnosticism existed.

            Gnostism is knowledge, the study of nature without recourse to creed or scripture. Gnosticism existed in Egypt back in the Old Dynasty, and is present today in every science department. Gnosticism predates revelations by a long, long margin.


          • Cris Putnam says:

            Not really… gnosticism properly defined is a Christian heresy that began in the late second century. Simon shows up in Acts 8 and it turns out bad for him. The Clementine literature is fiction written by an 4th century Arian heretic.

          • Ralph ellis says:


            And if you are talking about the world being created by a demiurge rather than god, a central component of Gnosticism, this is exactly what Simon Magus taught. Simon being the student of John the Baptist and the chief adversary of St Peter at the Caesaria debate.

            Did you never read the Clementine literature??

      • Cris Putnam says:

        And why did she burn? Because Nero let her burn in AD 64. This is all historical information, if you did but read it properly, but you need to readjust your outlook to the AD 60s

        Except compelling early evidence points to the book of Revelation as being written in the 90s. Irenaeus placed the time of writing “almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign.” The church historian Eusebius approvingly quoted Irenaeus’s view. (Eusebius, Church History 3.18.3)

        • ralph ellis says:

          >>Except compelling early evidence points to the book of
          >>Revelation as being written in the 90s.

          You don’t think that a ’90s book can use material from the late ’60s?
          Are we being logical? Are we thinking?

          Look, you are a Jew in the ’90s.
          (Jesus was a Jew, if you did not know – not a Christian. He was a Nazarene Ebonite.)

          So you are a Jew in the 90s. What is the biggest event in Jewish history that will dominate your thinking? Ah, yes, the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 70 – just as Pearl Harbor was for Americans in the AD 1960s. And what was god doing, when all this happened? This was HIS Temple, so what did god do? Did god fight back against the polytheistic Whore of Babylon?

          Yes, yes, he burned their city to the ground in AD 64. Let’s hear it for god, three cheers for the vengeful deity who has not completely forsaken us (only mostly forsaken us). Hurrah, hurrah.

          And why was it written in code? Because Rome was all-powerful, and would not appreciate open criticism of its policing of the provinces.


          Now do you see why Revelations was written??
          See “King Jesus” for details.

        • ralph ellis says:

          >>Piper Michael
          >>The book of Revelation was a Gnostic work… period.
          >>It was a message, and a warning to the Church… period.
          >>The Mother of Harlots, is the church that controls that city, and the empire, and the world. Period.
          >>And she is the Mother, and the Daughters are the Protestants. Period.

          Errr, you could not be more wrong if you tried.

          Gnostism means secret knowledge, mostly related to science and nature – i.e.: god’s works. It is NOT a knowledge of Christianity – Gnostics were heretics to Christians.

          The Christian Church could not control anything in the AD 80s and 90s, it was barely hanging on to existence by its fingertips. The people who controlled the city and the world at that time were the Romans. It was the Romans and their fine city, who was the Whore of Babylon – just as it says in that verse I quoted. Rev 17:18.

          Quote: “And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.” Rev 17:18

          The Whore of Babylon was a city. Get it? It was not a Church, it was a city – Rome.

          Daughters are Protestants? Ehh? How are you bringing the 17th century Reformation into a text written in the AD 90s? You really are grasping at the slimmest of straws to bolster your flawed world-view.

          Face facts. The gospel events took place in the AD 60s, and THAT is why Revelations was so concerned about AD 60s events. The minor revolution that Jesus was involved in and arrested for, was actually the great Jewish Revolt of AD 68.

          Quote: “And there was one named Barabbas, which lay bound with them who had made revolution with him (Jesus), who had committed murder in the revolution.” Mk 15:7

          Yes indeed. And THAT revolution was the Jewish Revolt, that ended with the destruction of the Temple. Which is why the Talmud says such nasty things about Jesus – because his revolt destroyed the Temple.

          See “Jesus, King of Edessa’ for details.


  7. jaz says:

    Piper Michael;
    your no different to anyone else. You up there Lifted Up on your Gnostic pedestal with the assumption that you got it all together and everybody else is a heretic.
    You are the one that sounds and display yourself like Rome.
    You even believe in purgatory (This is a thing Catholics got right, the concept of Purgatory)

    The characteristics of the ‘Religious Spirit’ you surely display by your arrogance with accusations and pronouncements of judgments. Just like Rome you malign the way of Truth in your puffed up imagination which you call the (divine knowledge) having no hesitation to display its works for all to see.

    You need to repent Lest the Lord strike you with the plagues foretold in the Book.

    • :More of your orthodox mysteries of Paul, and doctrines of devils?

      I am the Revenge of the heretics, a heretic who claims what he is.
      So prove your doctrines of grace and mystery… using only the words of the Lord…

      I claim nothing except what was written, and what was burned, and revealed again by the hand of God.
      I curse no one, but you orthodox are very good at cursing, and blaspheming, and judging.
      Oh, and not to mention, prospering in mammon.

  8. A baptist preacher told me; “I wish I could get my hands around your throat… you are trying to destroy the faith… I would kill you in the name of God.”

    Uh Huh… real ‘Christian’ fellow, eh? But, indicative of the attitudes display here in. Part of this was a social experiment to make you see yourselves for what you are.

    What are you? Pharisees. No different from two thousand years ago. People locked in their own doctrines of mystery, that they cannot see that man evolved away from them. 4th century mysteries, imposed as immutable doctrines, overlaid on a simple gospel of a Golden rule… He and others say the ancient knowledge “destroys faith”. No, it enhances faith to the level of Knowing, a faith so strong it reveals. What it does destroy, is faith in preachers and their mystery doctrineS.

    Mysteries that conquered a knowledge, called Heretical, sorcery, witchcraft, and devil worship. You are no different today when you spout ignorant emotional nonsense. That “I” need a ‘savior’? That we are have it all wrong, simply because we are trying to prove, that Atwill is full of crap? That the Messiah was a real man, who sacrificed Himself so that humanity had a Way to the Light?

    Do I believe He died for our sins? Of course. Do I think you will be washed clean by His blood? Yes and no. He is the Logos, the Light of the World, the King of Earth and the Judge of Men, this is true. But, what does that mean? There we divide into denominations, divisions and arguments. Is this the Way of God? Is God a Catholic or a Protestant? Does God give divided doctrines, or men? Didn’t The Lord say He came not to bring peace, but a sword? So then, who, exactly, wielded that sword of division? I state categorically that it was the Mother of Harlots whose name is; MYSTERY, speaking Blasphemies. Yet some preachers agree that is exactly who she is, and others want to quibble over denominations? Who then, created the Canon? You even want to argue about that, because, you want as much MYSTERY thrown into the subject as possible. What is the only thing that conquers the Sword of Division? A sword of truth, drawn from a rock…

    You love mystery, that is the bottom line. Mystery keeps you warm and fuzzy. You think that you are safe in the Mystery because, you think; Who can judge the ignorant? We are but mortal men after all. So then, what is an abomination that makes desolate? Divided doctrines? A Canon that throws out truth? A Canon that recognizes Enoch and Paul, yet merely mentions Enoch on the sly, and puts forth only a few of Paul’s works? While burning and declaring heretic, all the things that Enoch wrote, Paul’s more powerful works, and what Jesus taught ‘privately’? With not even an honorable mention in the Apocrypha? Yet we wonder why the People of God are divided? Do you think He is happy with this situation?

    I revert to the my previous statements. You are all victims of Rome, hypocrites, arguing over doctrines of devils. Doctrines added by Rome, adopted and changed by Protestants, and spread among God’s people as The Bible, a divided and broken work, the most political document ever written. One last question before I leave you to your mysterious fun; Why did “we” create man in “our” image.. Why did ‘God’ create the Light… twice?

    Why indeed. So many other questions, with no answers by the Preacher men. Come to Him as ‘little children’ and you will discover the answers to your questions. Knock and the door shall be opened, ask and it shall be given unto you. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Does it sound like I do not know the Lord? Because I no longer accept The Harlot or her mystery?

    You all sound like the Jews who attacked the Lord, Meh…

    • James says:

      It is a relationship and not a religion. Paul reveals in scripture that everyman will be judged by “My Gospel”. Just as the Israelites in the wilderness only had to look up (Serpent on the pole) and be healed, during this dispensation all one has to do is believe 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 During this Dispensation of Grace believe that and you are baptised into the only “Way” the Body of Christ. The Risen Savior boiled it all down. He helps you cut through the minusha.

    • hopeful_watcher says:

      Freemasons Gone Wild!!

      • jaz says:

        Indeed hopeful. Lucifer the Light bearer/angel of Light comes in many guises

        Great discernment hopeful_watcher

    • Cris Putnam says:

      Piper we do not accept all of the book of Enoch because it is clearly a work of fiction. Most scholars believe there are at least 4 different authors. The Book of the Watchers is the first section and the only one mentioned in the NT. The rest is easily debunked. For example Genesis tells us that Enoch was taken up by God before the flood. So how in the world did Enoch write about the flood and all the events after the flood up to the Babylonian captivity? Do you think Enoch made a paper airplane and sailed those sections down from heaven? THINK. It is not in the cannon because its claim to authorship is bogus. Same with the gnostic books, works of fiction, they amount to the equivalent of L Ron Hubbard’s Scientology for the third century.

      • Cris,
        The victors write the history, and control the ‘narrative’.

        There are so many conflicts, conundrums and mysteries in The Bible, is it any wonder why God’s people are divided and confused?
        Who is the Mother of Harlots, who’s name is; MYSTERY? Simply the Roman Catholics?, as some of you preachers say? Then why is she called The MOTHER of harlots? Who then, are the daughters? I submit, the Protestants are the daughters of the mother.
        The Books of Enoch, as the Books of Knowledge, that were burned… why? Why were the men burned? Was the early church just a church, or a political establishment as well?
        But, this is just ancient history, eh? History defines the future, day by day, and the future is now, and God’s people are divided, just like He prophecied… That He did not come to bring peace, but a sword. A sword divides, so wielded the sword of division? So, the very Bible itself, (re)written by Rome, further misinterpreted by King James, was a wonderful sword, of division and divided doctrines. The Abomination of Desolation planted in the true temple of God, your minds.

        Enoch is proven by the Grail contained in the Book of Secrets, the dead sea scrolls, the Ethiopian church…. and now, the math of the God Calculus in the Unified Field of God. Your ‘scholars’ have too many vested interests, like you, and all the orthodoxy, you cannot see because you are blinded by your own love of fiction and mystery. You can’t see that the Revelation was a Gnostic work, a message and a warning to the Churches, and you are all victims of the Mother of Harlots, whose name is MYSTERY, she who rides upon the Beast of Ten horns, the lost ten tribes, the Caucasian race, fulfillment of Abraham’s prophecy, which fulfills all the prophecies of Israel. Ten toes, ten virgins, ten horns. The most powerful race on the planet, divided as iron and clay, both stupid and smart, sheep and wolves, with a church system that supports The Beast system of the money changers, the Head of Gold that stands on the two legs of ideology.

        All your old interpretations now fall, as you orthodox are always WRONG! You change your beliefs and interpretations to the times… when their is only one time, God’s Time; A thousand years is as a day, and a day is as a thousand years… this is the Biblical definition of RELATIVITY, and now, SPIRITUAL RELATIVITY.

        The Knowledge of God comes, the Knowledge of the power of the Imp of Darkness rises from the Bottomless pit, to deliver the working of the Universe. But you, your kind would call me ‘New Ager’, or sorcerer, or even devil worshiper? Your self righteousness, will be your downfall. I breath fire at the hypocrite churches that worship mammon over God, who play lip service to God. You have not changed in thousands of years, none of you. Your minds are still in the 4th century, still arguing doctrines, doing nothing, while the evil ones take over the Earth.

        Yes, the winners wrote the history, yet the Revenge of the Heretics now comes. The Knowledge of God, shall conquer, so that the fulfillment is written as “the Mystery of God is finished.”

        It matters not what I say, you, the Church, is the third leg of Babylon. That which keeps the people in submission to ‘Godly authority’… nothing has changed since the time of Rome, and you are now “old dry bones”, who collect your thirty pieces of silver by keeping the people as sheep, while the wolves range, and there is no justice.

        To James; YES, it was converted to a RELIGION of PHARISEES, with mixed doctrines, and thousands of denominations. The Lord taught us, in the Gnosis, NOT TO HAVE CHURCHES with hierarchies of priests… He KNEW! He taught the simple faith of conscience, a simple golden rule, what have the Pharisees done with it? It is corrupted, and PAUL was the 13 Apostle, who never studied with the Lord! His doctrines are in conflict with the teachings of the Lord…
        His ‘letters’ should be banned, like they banned the ‘private teachings’ of the Lord.


        • James says:

          Piper Michael, I can’t remember what pedestal you have Peter on or not, but I must address your commentary on Paul?. If you believe that Peter in his writing’s is God given scripture, then please read II Peter 3:15-16 . Peter makes it quite clear that Paul writes from a perspective that he and many others may not be able to understand, and some twist for their on destruction, but he contrasts Paul writing’s of scripture with a comparison of other scripture. Therefore Peter himself validates Paul’s writing as scripture. Also Paul wasn’t the 13th. He was as I believe and some may debate this point, but first in the Body of Christ. A New Creation which was a mystery until the Risen Savior revealed it to him. As has been said numerous times. The Risen Savior revealed 8 or 9 mysteries (depends on how one counts) to the Apostle Paul, which had never, never, never been revealed before anywhere in scripture until it was revealed to him. Now if you don’t believe anything is truly Holy Spirit breathed scripture, then throw it away and just believe this Pope, who seems to make it up as he goes along. Keep Looking Up. It appears Jesus is soon coming for the Body of Christ..James

        • Cris Putnam says:

          Enoch is demonstrably largely a work of 2nd century BC fiction. The biblical Enoch was taken up to heaven before the flood but the so-called book of Enoch is full of history after the flood, obviously its claim to authorship is false.

  9. James says:

    I don’t know if the last two comments were for me or Piper Michael, but if they were for me please explain how one can add one iota to this Gospel of Grace? 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Without this starting point if you will, you aren’t even in the race. Paul who wrote literally half the NT is the Master Builder if you believe it. If one does a search of the scriptures, without a doubt the Risen Savior changed the game with this Pharisee on the road to Damascus. Pick your poison: Law or Grace

    • hopeful_watcher says:

      The reply was directed at Piper and not you James. My comment is at the same indention level as your comment, therefore the reply comment applies to the comment above, I.e. the parent comment.

      • James says:

        Hopeful..It was early for me, and I knew something wasn’t right. I thought I can’t possibly be that far out in left field for the Free Masons!!! God Bless, James

    • @James,
      Show me, in the words of the Lord, the Doctrine of Grace?
      No, not Paul…

      • James says:

        Piper Michael..I just showed you in a message posted just moments ago that Peter himself validates the writings of Paul as scripture. With that being said there is a difference between what Peter taught and what Paul teaches. I don’t expect you to get it in this short comments area. There is a vast difference between what was taught in the Lord’s earthly ministry and what was revealed to Paul by the Risen Savior. During Jesus’ earthly ministry the disciples and the people Jesus dealt with where still under the Law. He came to present himself as the Messiah of Israel. They rejected him. In the scripture it is clear that the Jews (Nation of Israel) was to be the Light of the True God to the Gentiles. They failed miserably as we all do. One of the mysteries revealed to Paul was that the Lord has set them aside in their blindness until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled (The Body of Christ). God is not a Liar. He said the Jews will carry the Light to the world. So he stopped a Jew on the road to Damascus. And he revealed a New Revelation 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Acts 20:24 Romans 2:16 Romans 16:25 2 Timothy 2:8 and Galatians 2:2 etc. etc. etc

        • James says:

          Piper Michael the above message should say until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. The times of the Gentiles is different

        • Again… if the Lord didn’t say it, it was not the Word of God, it was the Words and interpretations of PHARISEES…
          If you don’t know the difference, simply because you have been taught to respect these MEN, then I don’t know what to say.
          The Lord was a little peeved at Peter you know… in fact, he ridiculed him, because Peter was the source of disrespect for the Magdalene, a true priestess…
          Peter, and Rome, and Paul and The Boys, decided to do what He said not to do. Create a Church of Hierarchy.
          Peter was jealous of Mary Magdalene’s great wisdom. But, you wouldn’t know anything about that, because you would call such writings; HERETICAL.
          Enjoy your dots and tittles of MEN, they have little to do with the Word.

          • James says:

            Piper Michael..You have eaten the whole MEGILLAH of Catholicism. Run to Jesus. He gave Paul the key. The OLD KISS METHOD..Keep It Simple Stupid, and I realize that I am a stupid human. Calvary Covers It All.

      • James says:

        Piper Michael…His Death, Burial and Resurrection sums it up? If that is not the pinnacle of Grace, then what is your definition? He stopped a Jew on the road to Damascus and said, “Go and tell this world believe that and you are Saved”. You can’t add one iota to that message. You want to mix Law and Grace it seems? If you are in Christ the law is fulfilled. Say all you want about Paul, but one day you will be judged by “His Gospel”. Bash Paul all you want, but if his writings are the inspired word of God, then you are calling God a Liar!!!!

        • No.
          His sacrifice gave Him the right and the power, to sit upon the throne.
          Everything else, is implied by you and the Mystery Doctrine.
          If it didn’t come from His Words, it doesn’t exist… that’s what you guys can’t get through your head.
          What you said, sounds like a preacher, sucking out the dots and tittles, and calling the words of Men to be the words of God… sorry. But, if the Lord didn’t say it, it WAS NOT the words of God.
          It was the words of MEN, acting like they think they know what God wants.
          Christian, you have become the Pharisees.

  10. ralph ellis says:

    >>The fact that the Roman’s were the ones that crucified
    >>Jesus seems to escape Atwill.

    Eh? Have you read the New Testament?

    I think you will find that Pontius Pilate (i.e.: the Roman) ‘washed his hands’ of the entire affair, and left the conviction of Jesus to the Jewish authorities. In case you have never read the NT, this is in Mt 27:24. So you are plain wrong.

    PS What is with the ‘grocer’s apostrophe’ in “Roman’s” ?? One presumes you mean “Romans”, as in a plural rather than a possessive.


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  12. Christina Holzschuh (mosgrove) says:

    I am a 50 year of mom, grandmom, wife…christian bible believer since I was 19. Last night, I saw a video from Top documentaries, and for the first time my feet were taken out from beneath me. It was so convincing, I got depressed, I thought, all these years, I have been having Faith in a made up New Testament? Then I decided this morning to look further, and I found your youtube with your website. This documentary was posted this year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6wszpi_dxY Could you please watch it, as they made it sound so convincing, with scholars, and I am a logical person, and I just felt crushed. Without my Faith in Jesus and what he did, there is no Hope.

  13. Loren says:

    My oh my, where do I begin? Having been born and raised in the Christian faith, this issue is near and dear to my heart. It troubles me to this very day that there are so many people who know nothing about Christianity and still lay claim to its tenets. Even when demonstrated that Christianity is a fraud, they remain entrenched in their bondage. Well over 2000 years of history and literature to refer to and not a bit of it can budge their belief. It is astonishing to me that in this day and age where every piece of information can be scrutinized, these same people never show the slightest skepticism when shown the contradictions and outrageous fabrications in the scriptures. Even when shown the history of the peoples of that ancient time and compare it to today you get nothing. Isn’t it amazing that when most people are confronted with fraud and deception in their daily lives, they become enraged and demand immediate restitution but show these same people that they are the victim of a 2000 year fraud and you get the severest rebuking. I’ve read that ignorance is bliss. For me ignorance is a pernicious disease that cripples the mind. I am saddened that so many people can embrace a strong delusion. It speaks volumes as to the true human condition.

  14. ND says:

    Like it is the case with virtually all scholars, I don’t think Atwill’s claims are entirely false, so it only fair to dismiss the aspects he missed or misunderstood. Given the history of how Christianity and its doctrines (e.g. the decrees and Creeds forged by so called church fathers at the various Councils) came into being, anything is possible and elements of distortion, paganism, etc are clearly part of it, and Romans were also involved.


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