Comments on: Intellectual Honesty, Evidence, & Evolutionary Theory http://www.logosapologia.org/intellectual-honesty-evidence-evolutionary-theory/ Defending the Faith, Evangelizing the Eschaton Sun, 23 Apr 2017 18:13:56 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.7.5 By: Tom Kopper http://www.logosapologia.org/intellectual-honesty-evidence-evolutionary-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-81379 Sat, 22 Oct 2016 23:58:00 +0000 http://www.logosapologia.org/?p=6128#comment-81379 One of the if not the largest hurdle, is that Christians, (Creationist), cling only on to Genesis 1, 2, 3, manly Genesis 1, where there are scripture after scripture telling over and over about God creation with extra information through out the Bible. One of the main topics here is death.
What kind of death?
For man:
Genesis 2:16-17
“And the Lord God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.’”
Romans 5:12
Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ
“Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.”
For creation:
Romans 8:20New International Version (NIV)
“For the creation was subjected to frustration, (futility), not by its own choice, but by the will of the One who subjected it, in hope”

]]>
By: Tom Kopper http://www.logosapologia.org/intellectual-honesty-evidence-evolutionary-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-81378 Sat, 22 Oct 2016 23:24:06 +0000 http://www.logosapologia.org/?p=6128#comment-81378 James Ussher (or Usher; 4 January 1581 – 21 March 1656) was the Protestant Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of All Ireland between 1625 and 1656. He was a prolific scholar and church leader, who today is most famous for his chronology that sought to establish the time and date of the creation as “the entrance of the night preceding the 23rd day of October… the year before Christ 4004”; that is, around 6 pm on 22 October 4004 bc according to the proleptic Julian calendar.

The first debate, I went to was between an evolutionist, whom I don’t recall his name, and and a Young Earth Creationist (YEC), Duane Gish; Wikipedia- “In the early days of Gish’s debates, fellow creationist Henry Morris III wrote, “evolutionists were caught somewhat by surprise when a qualified speaker—complete with a working knowledge of the relevant literature and research—challenged their worldview … Soon spokespersons for evolution publicly recommended that evolutionists not debate Duane Gish because they would surely lose.”
His debating opponents said that Gish used a rapid-fire approach during a debate, presenting arguments and changing topics quickly. Eugenie Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, dubbed this approach the Gish Gallop, describing it as “where the creationist is allowed to run on for 45 minutes or an hour, spewing forth torrents of error that the evolutionist hasn’t a prayer of refuting in the format of a debate.” She also criticized Gish for failing to answer objections raised by his opponents. The phrase has also come to be used as a pejorative to describe similar debate styles employed by proponents of other, usually fringe beliefs, such as homeopathy or the moon landing hoax.
Gish was also criticised for using a standardized presentation during debates. While undertaking research for a debate with Gish, Michael Shermer noted that Gish used similar openings, assumptions about his opponent, slides, and even jokes. Although Shermer said he was not an atheist and was willing to accept the existence of a divine creator, Gish attempted to prove that Shermer was indeed an atheist and therefore immoral. Massimo Pigliucci, who debated Gish five times, said that he ignored evidence contrary to his religious beliefs. One opponent accused Gish of stonewalling arguments with fabricated data.”
Gish and the YEC”S in many ways act’s just as ungodly in their attitude toward unbelievers, and Ray Coward and Ken Ham certainly fit into this category. What kind of a wittness is this to the world? They definitely do not ‘proclaim the truth in love, (respect, cocern convincing, help manner).

]]>
By: Dan Kitinoja http://www.logosapologia.org/intellectual-honesty-evidence-evolutionary-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-63111 Sat, 09 Apr 2016 17:52:06 +0000 http://www.logosapologia.org/?p=6128#comment-63111 Cris,

While I still hold (basically) to what I consider the literal six day creation account, I am glad to know that there are scholars who hold to theistic evolution are wrestling and thinking deep on these issues. I believe that one’s belief on the age of the earth ought not to be a barrier to faith in Christ. I acknowledge that I have not read much that is out there from those in the TE camp (Admittedly this is predominantly because I am comfortable with the answers given by those on my side and therefore haven’t felt much of a need to examine the arguments for TE), but I hope that those who argue for it would look at the issue of the Imago Dei and not simply write off or minimize the concerns that TE diminishes the nature of the creation of man. I have a friend who is a Bible believing TE who in essence mocks this concern as if it were childish. I found his approach in that regard to neither be helpful for dialogue nor did it provide any satisfactory answer to the concern. We are still friends though, we just clearly disagree on this. Blessings on your research, I think I might have to check out your next book when it comes out.
In Christ,
Dan Kitinoja

]]>
By: Ken B http://www.logosapologia.org/intellectual-honesty-evidence-evolutionary-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-53592 Thu, 10 Dec 2015 20:36:34 +0000 http://www.logosapologia.org/?p=6128#comment-53592 There are actually MANY Biblical Hebrew scholars out there that prove a day is a day using the Biblical Hebrew text. Just reading the text should also prove it to the average person.

“So the evening and the morning were the first day.” ends the text of each day of creation AFTER He creates light and calls it “day” and dark is called “night”. Relate that to the obvious experience you encounter yourself every “day”.

Obvious aside, you really have to dabble in tom foolery to get around the text. Unless you are supporting a preconceived notion, then you can make stuff up.

The biggest issue with “intelligent design” is that you have to do some severe contortions to explain the origin of sin. According to the Biblical account Adam and Eve were perfect, sinless and walked with God in the Garden of Eden. AFTER they disobeyed God they realized their nakedness and the effects of sin and death set in.

So there would have to be death and decay for evolution to occur. When did decay begin? Did God create a sinful creation? Was his first amoeba created in the presents of sin? How did it reproduce and die off? How did natural selection take place without decay? The Law of Thermodynamics says decay is a constant of anything that produces energy.

]]>
By: jaz http://www.logosapologia.org/intellectual-honesty-evidence-evolutionary-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-51246 Tue, 10 Nov 2015 06:22:51 +0000 http://www.logosapologia.org/?p=6128#comment-51246 I said; (Jesus and His atonement is the centrality of God’s creation) The prophets foretold of His Messianic Ministry, even In Gen The word says; “He would Crush the serpent’s head” and this atonement was not to be for the Jews alone but for all creation.. The act of creation in Gen took 6 days and that God rested on the 7 from “all His works” and we have the genealogy of Adam through to Jesus and his atonement… Sin entered with the first Adam unto Jesus the second Adam who dealt with it by the atonement. One cannot just throw the lineage of man, tribes and languages and their sinfulness aside to accommodate Millions of years unto the Atonement.. and Jesus is not God’s first creation He is God’s only begotten Heb 1:5, Jesus is God’s image in the flesh. He is the “First Born’ of creation Col 1:15 in His resurrected state Rom 8:29. and that is the word of God and not my assumption.

]]>
By: Charles Nagel http://www.logosapologia.org/intellectual-honesty-evidence-evolutionary-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-51244 Tue, 10 Nov 2015 04:21:43 +0000 http://www.logosapologia.org/?p=6128#comment-51244 Yes jaz, some Christians believe in Dispensationalism, and others do not. But in either case, the belief in the Doctrine of Dispensationalism, or the rejection of the belief in Dispensationalism, was derived from their respective interpretation of the Bible, and their belief that the Bible is the word of God: and that Truth can only come from God. As we all know, Christians do not all hold the same teachings; but they all hold that Truth can only come from God. The issue I see with science telling us the origin of creation, and the creation being billions of years old, is, that science derived this from their own understanding, with no need of God for Truth. God Bless…

]]>
By: Emery http://www.logosapologia.org/intellectual-honesty-evidence-evolutionary-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-51243 Tue, 10 Nov 2015 00:08:47 +0000 http://www.logosapologia.org/?p=6128#comment-51243 There is no evidence within the inspired word of God to indicate that the Earth is of ANY age. But it could be trillions of years old as well as it could be 30,000 years old. But there is fossil evidence of an Earth that is many many millions of years old. And why do you say that Jesus is the centrality of God’s creation? He IS God’s FIRST creation, and ONLY first hand creation according to the scriptures. Everything else is said to have been created by Jesus using his Father’s holy spirit. The scriptures don’t say that Jesus is the centrality of God’s creation, that is your assumtion.

]]>
By: jaz http://www.logosapologia.org/intellectual-honesty-evidence-evolutionary-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-51235 Mon, 09 Nov 2015 20:20:23 +0000 http://www.logosapologia.org/?p=6128#comment-51235 Charles; on the other hand you have dispensationalists believing in a literal 1000 year reign of Christ, denying that the Kingdom of God is eternal within the context of a new heaven and a new earth.

]]>
By: Charles Nagel http://www.logosapologia.org/intellectual-honesty-evidence-evolutionary-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-51156 Sat, 07 Nov 2015 06:35:51 +0000 http://www.logosapologia.org/?p=6128#comment-51156 So we are to believe that at the time Jesus was here with disciples, He knew creation was billions of years old, and not just 4,000 years old. And, we are also to believe that Jesus, who absolutely knows how old creation is, did not bother to tell them about this: knowing this would become quite an issue in 20th and the 21st century. I’m sorry, but that makes no sense. God Bless…

]]>
By: Cris Putnam http://www.logosapologia.org/intellectual-honesty-evidence-evolutionary-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-51148 Sat, 07 Nov 2015 02:49:02 +0000 http://www.logosapologia.org/?p=6128#comment-51148 God’s word? Oh really Fred? Can you read it? Or maybe you depend on scholars to translate it into English and interpret the Hebrew grammar issues for you. My REAL issue with creationism is based in Hebrew grammar – which is a really important issue you’re likely ignoring,watch this and maybe you’ll be convicted. I was GENESIS 1 MIKE HEISER

]]>