Exo-Vaticana: Pope Francis Poised For Extraterrestrial Disclosure

By Cris D. Putnam
Exo-VaticanaExo-Vaticana documents the Vatican Observatory Research Group’s (VORG) endorsement of the astrobiological project and theological revisionism in expectation of extraterrestrial contact. In light of our extraordinary exposé concerning the Vatican’s plans for the arrival of an alien savior, the unexpected election of Pope Francis comes into a brilliant new focus. As a young adult, Bergoglio earned a master’s degree in chemistry from the University of Buenos Aires and had scientific ambitions prior to entering the Jesuit order.[1] When the current leader of the VORG, José Gabriel Funes, S.J., also from Argentina, entered the Jesuit order, one of the three examiners was Bergoglio. Funes, who astounded the world with his essay The Alien is my Brother, is infamous for invoking St. Francis of Assisi as an apologetic for accepting ET, “To say it with St. Francis, if we can consider some earthly creatures as ‘brothers’ or ‘sisters’, why could we not speak of a ‘brother alien’? He would also belong to the creation.”[2] In other words, Funes and the VORG are leading the charge to accept extraterrestrials at face value even arguing they could be morally superior to humans.

Funes believes the first Jesuit Pope will soon turn his attention to issues like astrobiology once his papacy is established:

One Jesuit who shares the pope’s Argentine roots and has known him since his own days as a novice, said the election of the man he first knew as Father Bergoglio is “a joy for the country.”

Father Jose Funes, head of the Vatican Observatory, told Catholic News Service that the election of an Argentine Jesuit with a background in science (he studied chemistry at a trade school before entering the Jesuits) can only be good for all those interests. However, he said, “I think the pope will be focused on other priorities first.”[3]

Pope Francis’ intimate association with the VORG leader implies a surprising new relevance to his election in the role of Petrus Romanus. The Pontifical Academy of Science’s 2009 Astrobiology Conference key note speaker Dr. Chris Impey predicted a forthcoming extraterrestrial disclosure saying, “the first discovery is only a few years away.”[4]  Impey’s few years are now upon us and recent exoplanet discoveries seem to offer promise. Thus, it appears that Pope Francis will indeed be the sitting Pontiff when that disclosure event occurs.  In Exo-Vaticana we offer evidence and arguments that this entails the strong delusion that leads the world to believe the lie that the Apostle Paul warned us to expect (2 Thessalonians 2: 11). 

Shipping NOW: http://www.exovaticana.com/


[1] Francis X Rocca “Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio: a profile” Catholic Herald (March 13,2013)  accessed March 23, 2013 http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2013/03/13/cardinal-bergoglio-profile/ Also see: http://www.ibtimes.com/pope-francis-master-chemistry-another-example-catholicisms-long-association-science-1131595#


[2] José Gabriel Funes, “The Extraterrestrial is My Brother,” L’Osservatore Romano, May 14, 2008 (English translation of article viewable here: http://padrefunes.blogspot.com/).


[3] Patricia Zapor “Jesuits surprised that first of their brethren is elected pope” Catholic News Service accessed March 23, 2013 http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1301160.htm


[4] “Pontifical Academy Studies Possibility of Extraterrestrial Life,” Catholic World News, November 11,2009, http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=4568.

About Cris Putnam
Logos Apologia is the ministry of Cris D. Putnam. The mission of Logos Apologia is to show that logic, science, history and faith are complementary, not contradictory and to bring that life-changing truth to everybody who wants to know.


  1. Beth says:

    Well, of course Mr. Funes is right about one thing. God did create non-human intelligent life. Bible believing Christians know this. We call them, angels. And some of them, one in particular, are extremely wicked and malevolent, and do not mean well to humanity.

    • NotBeth says:

      We are too far down the road of lies to know any truth. For all we know, the angel that tried to liberate us from slavery by teaching us to know right from wrong, was good and not evil. For all we know, everything is backwards.

      • jackie says:

        stick with scripture, it is truth, truth is not something you see, it is within, a spiritual knowledge that only comes from reading scripture, scripture is a food that is digested and nuorishes the soul, people are listening to people who are only speculating and are erroneous in their teachings, you cannot believe everything you hear

        • Kevin says:

          I have read Exo Vaticana & our Holy Scripture is referenced – cover to cover pointing to Jesus as the only way to salvation. This is the test. It is perfectly fine to speculate about our enemy’s next move. We are called to put on on the armour of God & prepare for spiritual warfare – proactively & on the offensive. There will be a time coming when the world will see miracles & wonders. Do not underestimate our enemy. This will be his final attempt to deceive as many people as he can for his time is very short.

    • Andrew says:

      I feel sorry for those that are still stuck in ancient confusion and feel the need for religion as a crux to their closed minds : \

    • William says:

      Right on, Beth, they are called “Fallen Angels”… Demons! Don’t any of you buy into the notion that E.T.’s will be friendly.. This is the deception… I am Catholic, from cradle to grave (or new era of peace) .. I am a Bible believing Christian! 🙂
      To Andrew: I am sorry to say, but, your mind is the one that is closed.. God is reality 🙂 A good working definition of “Insanity” is to be detached from reality..
      If you pray with your heart, with all sincerity, God will reveal himself to you.. When he does, you will never deny him, God, nor religion (a belief in Divine power)… Kills me when people who claim to be Christian, say they hate religion…
      And yes, we need Jesus, he is our Lord, and our God… Without him, we’re dead!

      Peace to all… The only thing that can bring you true peace, is to be humble, accept the fact that you are just a sinful human, and that God is all mighty, all powerful, and can do anything.. But most of all, that he loves you more than you will ever know 🙂
      PS: God governs the world, but prayer governs God 🙂

  2. cyberpriest says:

    (Funes, who astounded the world with his essay The Alien is my Brother, is infamous for invoking St. Francis of Assisi as an apologetic for accepting ET, “To say it with St. Francis, if we can consider some earthly creatures as ‘brothers’ or ‘sisters’, why could we not speak of a ‘brother alien’?

    What a load of bull’s dung…… Pigs crap!… Francis of Assisi worked with lepers. I suppose that leprosy was a malfunction of genetic manipulation by ET…………..what ever happened to SIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • adeline galm says:

      She is still here fortunately. Sin is a moon ‘goddess’. Sinai, Sin-Ai, means the mountain of the moon goddess Sin. Is a person or people who worship the moon known as a Sinner?

      • Cris Putnam says:

        Islam uses the moon symbol and many have asserted that Allah is the moon god of old. Of course it is highly disputed but scholars like Julius Wellhausen made the connection (Gerald R. Hawting,Cambridge studies in Islamic civilization,(Cambridge University Press, 1999) pp.112 )

        • jennifer rienhart says:

          yes good one most all of you praise God,! love it brings tears.. almost how you please Him when you comment in Jesus’s name!* Yes, hugs….- is only one life we must learn from God to share JHim a little even. He yes, who prooved all things to me for yrs, – lol….. in a dry spell no right man no crises’s lately kind of want the hard times after all thats when goose bumps!1 created miracles and internally showed up amazing peace joy change…. He showed Hr IS real we share with others at least a seed is thrown they can pooh pooh it but God is happy we re not here to please people and ha! at all costs reading 2nd Samuel with a group, creeps and juvenile like now too some, im not who is perfect but blatant sin kill etc no God matters it comes from the hearts desire good job, yes say His mane who cares we re not repsonsable to please’ man [cant duh]

    • Pastor C. Covert says:

      I’m with you, cyberpriest. Lawlessness has increased, good is called evil and evil is called good. We must keep our eyes fixed on Jesus as we enter these times. It is getting hard to tell the sheep from the goats. Remember the wheat grows up with the weeds, and all will be harvested together so that the wheat may not be harmed. But Jesus said that not all who call upon His name are His. Some who have been teaching lies in order to sell their wares will cry out, “But Lord, didn’t I do television shows and sell books in your name?” And Jesus, the King of all Kings, The Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world, will say: “Depart from me, you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you!”

      Many there are who have died and gone to Hell even as I have been typing these words. Many there are that could be reached with the pure message of Salvation! When there is so much “leaven” that the truth can no longer be discerned, it is time for us to denounce the message as being corrupted, and turn back to the Living Word of God.

      If we do not heed the warning, we will soon enough be left to our sins. God’s Spirit will not always strive with man. The day will come when God says to let the one who lies keep on lying, and let the one who steals keep on stealing, and let the sinners of all sorts keep on sinning. But s/he whom the Father disciplines and corrects, that one is a child. If God no longer disciplines or corrects, that is a fatheress child.

      Every idle word will be accounted for. What we reap, we will most assuredly sow.

      • cyberpriest says:

        “The Day cometh when darkness prevails and No man can Work”

        • louthesaint says:

          Hello priest: I like your comments. You some straight shooter Sir, and I agree. No minister of the true God will be able to work, (suppression by the Beast system) but them false prophets and teachers gonna have a field day (happening already) And then like a “thief in the night” That Day of the Lord 2Thes2:2 will come upon them that be deluded 2Thes2:11
          lord have mercy!

  3. hopeful_watcher says:

    So, given the supreme leader of the Jesuits is often called the Black Pope, would this mean our pope is a Black Pope? And I don’t give Nostrodomus any weight but it makes it odd when Qutrain 6.25 talks of a young black red.

    Through Mars adverse [a time of war] will be the monarchy Of the great fisherman [the pope] in trouble ruinous A young black red [a young black Cardinal] will seize the hierarchy The predators acting on a foggy day.

    Not sure Pope Francis qualifies as young, but odd none the less. Wouldn’t qualify the Vatican in trouble ruiness yet either, but plenty if other predictions point to this as well, including Francis of Assissi himself. So perhaps Petrus Romonus is the final pope on the list but the one to follow will be the false prophet.

    In other words, don’t have your mind 100% focused on pope Francis.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      I wouldn’t put much stock in the Nostradamus quatrain. The black pope is the leader of the Jesuits Adolfo Nicolás but I don’t buy into the conspiracy lore that posits him as the “secret behind the scenes” leader of Romanism. The Jesuits were formed to be the pope’s foot soldiers but since the 1960s they became liberal and adopted higher critical biblical scholarship. This is why Malachy Martin said there was a war between the Jesuits and papacy. Now it appears the war is over and liberal scholarship has superseded the supernatural in modern Catholicism.

      • hopeful_watcher says:

        I put even less stock in, which is no stock at all 🙂

        I believe all these extra biblical “prophecies” are crafted to make way for the deception. If we are honest with ourselves, than this would include the prophecies of the popes.

        This may not be popular and I have stated publicly before that I have had divine interaction that pointed out to me that a black pope will be antichrist. Maybe not THE antichrist, but of the spirit of antichrist, which includes the false prophet. I have strong urges in my spirit that pointed towards Cardinal Francis Arinze, but it could be some other black cardinal.

        You can imagine my alarm when I first learned of Qutrain 6.25.,I assure you that my interaction came before learning this.

        Pope Francis seems like the protestants dream come true. Our hopes of finally seeing eye to eye with the papacy may come to fruition. And I ask you, isn’t that just a little too tidy for your comfort?

        • Acushla says:

          A little too tidy. Under Pope Francis there will be a resurgance of Christendom. Do you know its History?

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            Yes a resurgence, I do expect that to happen. There are many lukewarm Christians out there in desperate need of a home. Will they find Christ when they get there or a worldly savior? What history are you referring to? Christianity or the history of the Catholic church?

  4. cyberpriest says:

    First thing first, The pope waisted no time on the unification venture.. He has already met with religious leaders of the world promoting justice and peace http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=306515

    I wonder if this pope will be the one to tie it all up! Is ‘Ecumenical worship’ that which St Paul referred as ‘taking pleasure in wickedness” 2Thes2:12 in it’s relation with the “Mystery of lawlessness” 2Thes2:7

    • louthesaint says:

      With all this unification from The papacy with the jews and all going on, I’s wondering, where does one draw the line between Israel as god’s people and them jews that are sucking up to the Whore? I mean, when God says ‘come out of her my people’ surely He is addressing only those who belong to Christ Jesus. Cause them jews been taken for a ride to be burned up with that Mother.

      • Cris Putnam says:

        I think it is essential to refrain from making generalizations based on race. The Bible predicts the the Jewish people are hardened until the fullness of the gentiles come in (Rom 11:25) at such time God will pour out his spirit and they will repent en masse (Zech 12:10). We should be about the business of evangelizing Jews with the message of Jesus’ death and resurrection which is so explicitly prophesied in their scriptures rather than participating in Jesuit engineered hoaxes like the Protocols of Zion.

        • Tom says:

          I agree with refraining from the generalizations, yet the power structure is clearly Jewish. As with the church’s wheat & tares / sheep and goats, so it seems to be with the Jews. “There are those who call themselves Jews, yet are a synogogue of Satan.”. The diaspora sent the Jews in all directions and only God knows the DNA truth. What we have come to know as a Jew, may not be a Jew at all. Even within Judaism there is the Sephardic / Ashkenaz debate. It actually seems to fit the pattern of God showing His strength through weakness and allowing truth to be proven. His own Son crucified, The Bible under continuos assault and wolves in sheep’s clothing making a pretense. Truth will always be put through the crucible and will always triumph. Thus, Satan has used “the Jews”, God’s own elect, to advance his challenge on the truth. But remember this y’all; God has never lost control of the situation ever!

        • cyberpriest says:

          MrPutman. I have just read the jesuit engineered hoax you referred. There is no denial that there exists such a document as the ‘protocols of Zion’ regardless of the fact who manufactured it.

          This is something that i came across a few years back by an author Edward Hendrie concerning Babylon’s identity. He suggests that the protocols is the work of Jesuit crypto-Jews
          From remembrance he is an evangelical protestant and his Book deals with tracking the beast from the Synagogue to the vatican.

          • cyberpriest says:

            Mrputman and Tom. here is a Link to the author i mentioned above. ‘Pope John Paul II being a crypto-Jew is not an anomaly. There is a deep history of crypto-Jewish popes reigning over the Roman church. “The Medicis were a Merovingian family who ruled the Vatican as popes. In the 15th century, the Medici funded the Academy of Florence, Italy to spread Hermetic Cabalism and to infiltrate the Vatican with this heresy. Several of the Medici became popes and cardinals. Giulio de’ Medici (1478-1534) would become Pope Clement VII, Alessandro de’ Medici (1535-1605) was Pope Leo XI and Giovanni de Medici, Pope Leo X (1513-1521).” [2011] (Solving the Mystery of Babylon the Great by Edward Hendrie)

          • Cris Putnam says:

            I worship a Jewish God named Yeshua. I prefer working on strategies to evangelize the Jewish people rather than demonizing them. If you want to discuss Zionist conspiracy theories you are free to do so but not in my comments section just take it somewhere else.

          • BT says:

            Thankfully I’m one of the Jews who loves Jesus!

          • cyberpriest says:

            Mr Putman I have been reading some of your blog for some time and decided to make some comments.
            I think that you are a fearful man.
            You shy away from christians who have shown genuine concern about the seduction of Christianity by the Jewish element.
            You use The writings of Jesuits to promote your views and when others bring to light the Jesuit/Jewish connection you accuse them as being anti-semite.

            It is obvious that you are narrow-minded and cannot recognise that there is more to the end-time deception that your limited knowledge allows for. You sir, are as the prideful Popes!

            You rather much the UFO sideline that Satan uses to distract you from the truth.
            You need to wake up! and stop taking those theological pills that your Messianic/Jewish buddies are peddling to you.
            I will wipe the dust of my feet an move on!

          • Cris Putnam says:

            I know enough history to know that Satan has consistently targeted the Jewish people. Most of the Zionist conspiracy material is lies and propaganda. But no matter because it’s completely off topic and you are leaving comments on my posts, so it’s not that I’m fearful of it, I just think most of it is a waste of my time. I think it is too easy to forget that in the big scheme of things it’s not people or false religions, I take this verse seriously: “For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.” (Eph 6:12)

          • BT says:

            Cyberpriest, I am probably not far behind.
            Either by my choice or Chris will ban me.

            God bless you for your willingness to shed light on a difficult subject.

          • owl says:

            Hats off to cyberpriest & BT for bringing up the connection of jesuits and crypto-jews as this is more than obvious to those that have the eyes to see.

            @ Cris, since you strongly believe that we wrestle against cosmic powers & spiritual forces of evil to which i absolutely agree then you should be aware of the saturn (satan) cults that hold the spell over both islam and zionists and will pit them against each other as a blood sacrifice of enormous proportions.

            The 6th planet on a supernatural level controls both the kaba (the cube in mecca) and the zionist seal of solomon which if you are familiar with dark kabalistic arts is used for invoking most powerful satanic forces going back to egyptian and babylonian mystery schools and really has nothing to do with king david as rothschilds would have you believe.

            Interestingly in the new age circles as well as milab operations it has been found amongst those that are able to astrally travel and remote view that reaching out into the solar system saturn seems to be some sort of frequency fence or a wall of a prison and probably where most of the fallen angels including religious demons (theosophist so called ascended masters) emanate their energy from.

            Obviously it is very difficult to provide evidence to make a case for this saturnian connection but that is the case with the evil in the invisible heavenly places. Pieces to this puzzle can be put together if you have a keen eye in your research. On our earthly level we really need to discern through symbols and agendas in the works lest we fall into the trap of delusion and give out our essence to support the wrong side. At this point in time that is a much greater imperative than attempting to convert jews to christianity which is quite impossible if their mental program is talmudic.

        • Dee says:

          Someone told me about this website and I have been reading alot of your comments. I’d like to offer something if I may? My parents were die-hard RC. At 18 I left the RCC and started down the road of figuring out which chuch I would go to. Thankfully Yahshua showed me that His church is His people (those who obey His commands, hear His voice and are born again believers.) I am deeply concerned when I hear/read things like ‘in the future the Jews will repent en masse’. Well what of all the Jews and every other person over the last 2000 years? What/ Where is their hope? I say this b/c I had listened to some guy out in CA say things like, “this new information is really going to enhance your walk with GOD.” ect…GOD is more than able to enhance any of His childrens walk no matter what decade ect…

          The next thing I would like to say is this-and I think its really key. My dad, a RCC all his life, said to me one day, “Catholics are Jews who go all the way.” Keep in mind, my parents had more Jewish friends than Catholic friends. And it wasn’t b/c they were Jewish lovers, just so happened they had similar interests.

          I don’t think he really knew what he had said!! Because from my studies a ‘Catholic is a Jew who goes all the way’ is ‘a person who says they are one thing but they are really those ‘Jews’ that “say” they are Jew’s (belonging to Yahwey) but are not, they are something else.’ Precisely-they are babylonian high priests offering up a sacrifice over and over again of the sun god rah, under the illusion of it really being Jesus Christ.

          When Jesus said in John 6, “you must eat my flesh” He meant ‘ you must live my life, one of sacrifice and offering to your Father/Yahwey” “The flesh profiteth nothing, it is the Spirit that gives life. The words I have spoken to you, “they” (the words) are spirit and they are life.”

          I believe my parents died, loving and having a relationship with the LORD. But they were also is a babylonian stronghold that they ‘knew not’!!

          • William says:

            Dee, I am affraid, it is you who knows not… Your parents were in the right church, as were you, but none of you knew the true beauty of the faith. This is why your Dad made silly remarks, and you left.. Your foundation was built on sand. What you say about the Roman Catholic church, is not reality, nor is it historical… If you do methodical extensive research, into the true history of the church, you will be surprised to find that the celebration of Christs sacrifice for us (true love) has been celebrated this way, since the early church fathers.. Read John Chapter 6, 3 or 4 more times..Jesus was not speaking in parables in this chapter. He meant what he said.. This is why most of the deciples turned and walked away.. Jesus did not say to them “Wait, you don’t understand, what I really meant was”… No, he meant what he said.. You, and those you go to church with, are just like those deciples, who turned and walked away. Interestingly, it is John 6:66 that mentions their leaving Jesus…
            Just as the Father sent mana down from Heaven, to feed the Isrealites, so too, does the Father send his son down from Heaven, to feed us…
            When the Priest consecrates the bread, the Father changes the Bread into the flesh of our Lord… If it weren’t so, Paul would not have told us in I Corinthians, chapter 11, that those who partake in this supper unworthyly, defiles himself. And also, in the same chapter, Paul tells us of the on going celebration of our lords sacrifice for us, by saying “When ever we eat this bread, and drink this cup, we proclaim the death of the Lord, until he comes”.. I Cor 11:26…
            Jesus himself, at the last supper, consecrated the bread and wine, as he prayed over each, before he said “Take, and eat, this IS my Body”… “This IS my Blood”
            We are not canibals… That is exactly what those who turned and walked away (John 6) thought.. They did not understand, just like you..
            When you finally come to realize how wrong you are in painting the church (Jesus’ church) as some sort of pagan sun worship church.. You will fall to your knees, with tears streaming down, begging the Lord to forgive you..
            Now in saying what I have above.. It is true, the church has been infiltrated by Masonic evil forces.. The church will split, and only a small remnant of the true faith, will remain.. Those who know, and follow the truth.. Jesus!
            The church is being attacked from within.. But Jesus said, the gates of hell will not prevail against her.. Ask yourself this, Why is the Catholic Church, attacked by more people and entity’s, than any other in this world? Attacked on every side (by so called believers) and from within, by infiltration of Gods enemies… Precisely because it IS Gods church… The keys were handed to Peter.. He handed them down to his predesessor, and so on, and so on… Read Acts again too.. Shows you the structure and authority of the church 🙂
            Don’t get me started on Mary.. She is your Mother, just as she is our lords beloved Mother…

          • louthesaint says:

            William; the Talmudic Babylonian symbolism is all over the Catholic church. From skull caps to the Fish head Assyrian Mitres worn by popes.
            The erect oblique within the occult wheel of vatican square’s babylonian wheel. Plus the fact that the Romanist whore is pressing the ecumenical affiliation of the enemies of the Faith. restoring the unification or speech that which God separated at Babel.
            What did God do to the Idolatrous nations of Old? But it seems that the popes ignore or may be apply the finger to the nose at God Holy Decrees.
            JP2 in the 80’s welcomed the Masonic within his fold, I heard it with my own ears on the Day! God is my witness!

            Who is it that shed the Blood of the saints of the Almighty for 600 years under the Spanish inquisition of Loyola, the adulterous worshipper of the Queen of heaven Jer44:19 (Samarimus) the ancient Queen of old who led astray the People of God.

            We eat the Bread and drink the Wine partaking in the everlasting life which was given us by the Grace of God 1Jn5:11 and not to aspire that it would become ours (works) that is why the Lords supper is a memorial of that which is reality! William; may you see this truth.

          • louthesaint says:

            William;what is the difference between the word PAX and SHALOM?

          • louthesaint says:

            I apologise to you Dee for jumping the gun. But I was compelled to say something to William. on the moment thing!

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            William, that is a horrible interpretation of John 6. Jesus used that double meaning of eating His flesh and drinking His blood to flush out the evil intent of those waiting around for Jesus to do something that they can accuse Him of to persecute Him. All those who listened and believed what Jesus was speaking of moments before understood Jesus’s intent and those waiting around for Jesus to do something where they can cast blame and guilt disregarded His previous comments and clung to the literal meaning.

            Sadly you too disregard His earlier comments and cling to the literal meaning. So first off He says “Do not work for food that spoils.” Right there that discounts the RCC Eucharist, because the priest’s bread and wine (even after the transubstantiation) will eventually spoil.

            Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.” He reiterates this in various ways throughout this passage that this new manna from heaven is about coming to Him and believing. And if your extremely obtuse He even says you won’t go hungry or thirst if you come to Him and believe (two things that require neither bread or wine). Those are the elements of the Eucharist! To come to Him and believe. They are not the products of some priest waving his hands over his dinner and calling it human flesh and blood.

            Lastly, “When ever we eat this bread, and drink this cup, we proclaim the death of the Lord, until he comes”. There is a huge difference of “proclaiming His death compared to “producing” His death. Jesus said ‘it is finished.’ Why won’t you believe Him?

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            Catholics stay loyal to the church because they fear that if they don’t obey the church they will go to Hell, when what they really should fear is not obeying Jesus. They take the church’s word over Jesus’s. That is very sad and worldly.

          • hopeful_watcher says:


            What kind of alchemy, wizardry is that? I might as well try and turn my twinkie into a bar of gold.

          • Dee says:

            Dear William,
            Wow. Um you are quite a presumptuous person. My parents, if they were alive today, could whip your theology on any given day. I said, ‘they were DIE HARD RCC”, not silly mamsy pambsy RCC. Im sorry I have to say this, you are a child in your thinking and your conversation b/c you know not whom you were speaking of!

            I did not leave the RCC because my Dad made that statement. I left the RCC because upon true godly sorrow over my sins and my assumption that perhaps there was something I could do to earn my way to heaven, I was given the gift of true repentance and was born again. Born of the Holy Spirit!

            A true walk with Father Yahwey is one in which one does what His Son Yahshua/Jesus did: die to oneself. Obedience is not found in being at church every Sunday or as the RCC allows for lazy catholics, on high holy days. Obedience is not in genuflection of the body only, but a bowing of ones own soul unto obedience that is evident in the flesh!

            Jesus warned us that in the last days (and we’ve been in them for 2000 years!) that great deception would be rampant. The RCC is guilty of its inquisitions but you know what? So are the Protestant churches.

            The Protestant churches claim they have ‘come out’ from among the RCC, but in all truth, they are mini RCC and they perpetuate the lies the RCC does.

            “Jews are Catholics that go all the way”. And in this statement is the truth that this particular Jew is one that say he is but is not: he is in fact of the synagogue of satan (a false witness). So the statement is true.

            A true Jew is one who is inwardly. A follower of King Yahshua who obeys the commandment to “come out of her My people”. Come out of what? That is for you William to search out.

            The Catholic church/entitty resembles the picture of government-fat, lazy, doesn’t make good decisions and takes for ever to make a decent decision, but is quick to make an evil one! Participating in things that are ridiculous. Ask any lost or atheist person what they think. They will rip us “Christians” because our doctrine doesn’t hold water!! Have you ever spoken to a Wiccan? Why do they celebrate xmas and easter? Because those ‘holidays’ are theirs!

            William the RCC is a very eloquent and intillectually stimulatiing organism. The mass pleases the senses and we are sensual people! So it ‘speaks’ to us. But I warn, it “speaks” to our FLESH!!!

            Jesus said, Matthew 7:22, 23 ” Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

            That word ‘knew’ in Hebrew is yaddah, which means to know intimately. We do well to make a show of our obedience when we go to church and say a prayer of repentance and recieve communion. But truth is there is no common union with white sepluchar and the LORD!

            Years ago, while studying, I started to go back the RCC and really liked the priest at the particular church I attended. He had a real heart for people no doubt! And I enjoyed the nostalgia of the mass and the feeling of belonging and ‘fellowship’. But week after week I would pray earnestly for the LORD to show me ‘in Spirit and in Truth’, what He wanted from me. The answer was to come all the way out of these false institutions, for GOD is not found in temples built by human hands! We are not to have a relationship with the world and that is exactly the deception the RCC and Protestant churches promote-relationship.

            Why in GODs name can people not lay down xmas or easter? Or food or drink or money or sex? Because there is a relationship to that ‘thing’. We are to have a relationship with our Father Yahwey and He will provide for all our needs and yes some of our wants, but we are to seek the kingdom of heaven first!

            Opening the eyes of the blind so he can see is nice. But if that man dies in his sin, what good is it? Open the spiritual eyes of the spiritually blind man and he will see the kingdom of GOD in his midst!


          • owl says:

            William does make a valid point on attacks aimed at the catholic church but that is the nature of the beast being so large and attracting destabilizing elements over the centuries. However let’s give credit where credit is due. It was the catholic church that kept Jesus Christ saviour and ressurection beliefs over the centuries and spread them outside of the roman empire regardless of the fact that some of the rituals and symbology is paganistic.

            What if the romans at that time picked up an egyptian or babylonian occult religion and made it official? Think about that. Jesus Christ would be virtually unknown today other than being a historical artifact of just another revolutionary from that time.

          • owl says:

            @Dee, all religions have their dirty laundry and are infested with idolatry because we as humans in a fallen state are disconnected from the holy spirit and more often than not rely on that what can be seen with our limited spectrum eyes. In such a state true faith is a very difficult concept for most to swallow.

            My family roots are mostly roman catholic but i am not a practitioner since i have an aversion towards rituals & false authorities in flashy attire however i do hold some respects towards the catholic faith and would again agree with William on his assertion that the church may split and in the end a part, the good seed will show its true colors.

            Btw, Jesus was not a jew but a galilean from nazareth. You really need to research where the word jew comes from, who do jews were then and who they are today rather than rely on freemasonic interpretations that have infested christian texts in the recent centuries. The deception is quite thick to say the least.

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            “Jesus Christ would be virtually unknown today other than being a historical artifact.”

            So if it weren’t for the RCC, Jesus would have died in vain? Hardly!! Where is your faith in God that the message of the sacrifice of His son would be spread throughout the world, no matter what circumstances history would have thrown its way? You diminish the power of God to believe such things are possible.

            Whatever the RCC (or ANY church for that matter) may boast about their historical pursuits, let it be over the only thing worth boasting over. And that is when they made themselves small and exalted Jesus’s name to the highest station.

          • owl says:

            Why do you think i diminish the power of God when he leveraged the romans to destroy the synagogue of blind followers under satan’s influence in 70 A.D. and furthermore the whole roman empire to carry the faith of his son throughout the centuries branching off to numerous denominations. Because that is God’s way to save many more souls than would have been the case if satanic religions were the official flavor throughout time and christianity was forced underground in secret among just a few.

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            Because by saying and believing that you disregard the will of God. So what if Satanic religions flourished and Christianity was forced underground (aside from the fact that were anyway, you know Christians fed to the lions and all of that). The Romans killed the Christians before they carried it forward. I guess Satan figured if you can’t beat them then you might as well join them.

            You don’t think God could use such a circumstance for good? An entire human race was preserved through a single family, Noah’s. The gospel took root from 12 men with the church in acts.

            Never in a million years, even if they found every Christian and killed them would the gospel of Jesus Christ not have been spread to the entire world. Increase in the faith brother.

            In Christ, whom I.love,

          • owl says:

            “Because by saying and believing that you disregard the will of God.” – hmm, i commented on the will of God and his leveraged works in historical examples yet you state i disregard it, you are not making sense.

            I think you are missing the point of my comment just like you missed the point of another of my comments yesterday (below) where i was talking about a probable unification attempt by the global powers to unify christianity, islam, judaism and so on in parallel to the dreaded NWO and not unifying denominations of christianity. Remember that we live in a world where well over half of planetary 7 billion souls are outside of christian beliefs and majority of those are in effect atheists.

            Therefore do not worry about my faith but rather that you have the perception and understanding of the world we live in so that you can have have a greater effect in carrying the message of Christ to lost and blinded ones that are under the influence of satan’s devices.

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            1 Timothy 2
            3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

            And yet you say that Jesus would be a footnote in history, as if God would have let that happen.

            I see no difference between unification of Christianity and the NWO, because the way they wish to unify Christianity is by watering down Christ. The fact of the matter is the true gospel of Christ is offensive to many, even to lukewarm Christians. You will never see a genuine unity until Christ returns. If any believe it possible, even in the name of churchianity, then it is the product of the antichrist.

            Do you think that Constantine making Christianity the Roman state religion (Edict of Thessalonica) was a good thing? I don’t. I see it as a first ditch effort to bring about the antichrist.

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            I’ll take it one step further. I believe the unification of the NWO will be precipitated by the unification of Christianity.

          • owl says:

            Take that argument to God then why he chose what he chose. Who are you to judge his choices and ways?

            You are wrong on the NWO religion, true christianity will be demoted and luciferian carrot stick utopia for the few and slavery for most powered by occult technology will be promoted. You are already under its influence subtly but you do not know it, we all are.

          • louthesaint says:

            Can we agree that coming out of Babylon is to ‘return’ to that original Jerusalem Gospel. as it was that a remnant returned from the captivity of Babylon in the days of Ezra, such has the call been in the Last days (2000 years) to come out of Babylon

            We return to be like the original church in ‘Spirit and Doctrine’ The Apostolic foundation is not one of evolvement. Jesus is the Builder and He keeps the Building within the perimeters of the foundation. So we strip off all Babylonian attire and put on Jesus Christ.

            The problem with Catholicism is that it has evolved beyond the perimeters of the foundation.
            This is evident by the fact that she places ‘a man and traditions’ above the Word of God, Traditions that she acquired and adapted by the Mystery Babylon Harlot Spirit which had been developed over the cultural civilisations of the past. And It does not matter what denomination if it is not preaching the jerusalem gospel it belongs to the whore, for she is the producer of all false doctrines!

            This Mystery Babylon Harlot Spirit was there when the religious authorities Crucified the Lord. She was there when the prophets were killed. She was there when the colosseum filled with righteous blood. She was there during the inquisition. She is still here Today! And her insatiable lust for the Blood of the saints is still her driving force. Think not that coming out of Babylon and returning to Jerusalem is to be without persecution.

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            I don’t judge His ways. I marvel that we continue to be surprised at His power.

            “true christianity will be demoted”

            I won’t disagree with you there because nothing today looks like TRUE Christianity, but its all Churchianity.

            However, don’t be shocked if the NWO religion looks a lot like lukewarm Christianity. I won’t be dogmatic and say it “will” no more than you should be dogmatic and say it “wont”. That is when deception takes root where we are convinced of our rightness and don’t make room for the spirit of truth.

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            “And It does not matter what denomination if it is not preaching the jerusalem gospel it belongs to the whore, for she is the producer of all false doctrines!”

            You hit this one out of the park Lou!! My whole point is we shouldn’t be seduced into thinking we are ok if the denomination wears the cloak of Christianity.

            Jerusalem Gospel!! All the way!!

          • owl says:

            @lou, where do you think babylon is today? is it rome, jerusalem, DC, london, all those have blood of saints on them, remember that the 7 hills are not only in rome but jerusalem as well, perhaps the other two also, any one of those four cities is infested with evil and degeneracy, babylon more than likely may be the whole zionist empire of the western world or the whole degenerate world influenced by satanic devices.

            @hopeful, there was always lukewarm christianity but in this new age there is diverted christianity already sinking into delusion thanks to false prophets and itching ears.

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            Owl, you wrote below that falsities are easy to spot because the words will speak to the ego.

            There are is no bigger ego building words then “you are the one, true church” to those with itching ears to believe they are righteous.

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            Owl, I really think we are disagreeing far less than you think we are.

            I fully believe there are satanic, masonic occult drivers that have pushing towards this NWO. I just don’t think its going to be that obvious to the ordinary observer, because its going to be shrouded in goodness and possibly even Christianity. The papacy has been infiltrated, imho and will be a puppet.

          • louthesaint says:

            Hellow owl; I’s reckon that Mystery Babylon is that spiritual whore of satan that promotes all false worship. She is antithesis of the Holy Spirit. she is in the heart of Adulterous christians!

            But there is also a physical manifestation of herself as a ‘City’ in the earth Rev17:18 upon the seven hills which one day will burn as a result her allies turning upon her Rev17:16
            I always keep in mind that Mystery Babylon is religious by nature (she fornicates with the world)

            How one perceives what the symbolism of the seven heads of the beast which carries her be, determines where the seven hills are Located. there are many views out there as to her identification. I tend to favour the historical view because as Apostle John explains by the following;
            She travels with the seven headed beast. The heads I believe represent past civilisations that have always been in opposition to the people of God beginning with Egypt as the first.
            If you are to Come down the list you get to the sixth head which Apostle John says “One is” Rev17:10 He says five have fallen ‘past tense’ But One (imperial Rome) is present at the time of his writing revelation. the way that john writes nullifies that this beast is something that only pertains to The end-Time.
            As this sixth head passed or is it still present as the Holy Roman empire? Daniel’s Legs of Iron with the feet of iron mixed with clay.Dan2:40,41,42 where is that seat of beastly authority today, is the seventh head to come the NWO that must manifest for a short time. So; how I see it is, that where this Lineage of beastly power be presently is where the whore also be. Looking at it from the time of John’s writing, If the biblical lineage is followed then it is Rome that be the city where the woman manifests herself in physical realm.

            That is only my view, I try to keep within the context of scripture.

          • owl says:

            You are right hopeful. It will be subtle at first and it already is like a virus spreading taking over the host, the slow boiling frog syndrome while we watch for dramatic events that are not happening and assume everything is normal. That is how demonic possession starts, subtle at first masked by what appear to be positive signs.

          • owl says:

            @lou, from a physical realm the most reasonable would be jerusalem in the near future considering that that the rothchilds nwo and vatican plans are to establish the power base in that city and rule globally from it. Since that has not happened so far we are still not there yet but this may be the goal by 2018 which would be exactly 70 years after zionist establishment of israel with a cursed occult hexagram waving on its flag. Not long ago, rothchild zionist agent george soros stated that israel will be no more in 10 years. Are the powers pushing prophecy and trying to fake the end times or is God supernaturally bringing this about we shall see.

  5. BT says:

    Yes, unifying with whom?

    When you address this subject Chris, then I might be interested in buying one of your books.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      I have addressed it, Antisemitism that goes back to the second century church fathers, Petrus Romanus has an entire chapter devoted to it. If you insist on posting those sorts of links I will simply block you, if you want to comment you are welcome, but go elsewhere to promote your Jew conspiracies I will not tolerate them here.

      • BT says:

        For the record, I never made “broad sweeping generalizations” about the Jewish race.
        I only bring into question the Talmudic writings that are witness to the age old Jewish desire to have a kingdom of this world!

        How often I have heard “The moderate Muslims should speak out against extremism”. Can’t “moderate Jews who love Jesus ” do the same?

        • BT says:

          And speaking of anti-semitism

          Poor Bloomberg!!…

          “Sharpton & Barnicle Agree: Anti-Semitism Explains Opposition To Bloomberg On Gun Control”

          (It was in the news today, under that heading. I’ll leave off the link.)

        • Yes, moderation should speak out against extremism, however you miss an important piece of the deception when you stop there. That there is a possibility that the one world system will be born out of moderation. Moderate versus extremism is one way of saying good versus evil cloaked in sociology jargon. These things are false dichotomies because they are both unrighteous and therefore products of the evil one. The true dichotomy that leads to salvation of the soul is sinfulness versus righteousness.

          Check out my link on my name above. It’s a thesis called ‘Woe to us when good defeats evil!’

          • BT says:

            I take your thesis to speak similarly to something along the lines of the Letter of the Law versus the Spirit of the Law. (?)

            Still, I’ll take good over evil any day.

            God will sort out those who are with Him.

        • Dee says:

          BT, I read somewhere, “See who you cannot criticize and then you shall know who controls you!” booyah!

      • William says:

        I threw “Petrus Romanus” right in the trash! Because the non Catholic authors, had to add chapters of worthless biased disinformation, regarding the Catholic church.. They should have stuck to the information in which the title of the book refers… But then they would not have been able to call it a book..
        All of you need to set your minds on this very valuable information I shall share with you.. If you are so Holy, and have been gifted by God, to be able to spread the good news.. Do so, without stabbing your Christian brothers and sisters in the back.. Spread the good news… Don’t talk about how bad those others are, and how saved you are.. You are NOT saved.. None of us will be saved until we finish the race, having persevered in keeping the faith!!!

        • hopeful_watcher says:

          Yep, got to keep you on the hook to keep those good works coming.

          You are saved when you are baptised with the Holy Spirit. It doesn’t mean you are righteous and complete, but it means your actions are guided by the conviction of the spirit and not the condemnation of a priest.

  6. BT says:

    “Pope calls for all religions to unite”


    And guess who also had a seat at the meeting with the Pope?

    Abe Foxman! Head of the ADL, which authored the Hate Crimes Laws, and is a rabid Christian hater.

    • hopeful_watcher says:

      “We must do much for the good of the poorest, the weak, and those who are suffering, to favour justice, promote reconciliation and build peace,” Pope Francis said.

      Huh? That isn’t the great commission. I thought we did those things to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ.

  7. paul w says:

    something doesnt fit right with this guy bergoglio. i stil feel peter bertone is running the show, the actual petrus romanus. judging by the prophecy “during extreme persecution peter the roman will be head honcho” basicly bergoglio is just a frontman to cover up for the real new pope peter bertone, peter the roman. they wanna keep it under wraps cuz the world became awake to the petrus romanus story so they are just saying bergoglio is the new pope but its all a fat lie

  8. cyberpriest says:

    This is interesting; I find it so anyway, because of the historical context and how it applies to 666

  9. louthesaint says:

    Mr Putman you saying, (Thus, it appears that Pope Francis will indeed be the sitting Pontiff when that disclosure event occurs). What exactly are you saying that the disclosure event is gonna to be?

    • Cris Putnam says:

      lou – I do not know. In my post I quoted Dr Chris Impey who said at the Vatican Astrobiology conference that he expected an announcement in a few years (in 2009) – so it’s truly not me speculating, I’m quoting the experts. If what they believe happens then it should occur during the papacy of Francis, indeed, this being 2013 his prediction is due now.

      (I don’t really believe they will find ET, but I speculate that perhaps the archons could lead them to believe they have)

      • Dee says:

        Funny,but not so much, thought here. They could re-animate JP2 and they could have what they call a Tridentine mass!

  10. BT says:

    (Re-posting this without the link, while it awaits moderation.)

    Chris, good to see you’re ignoring what the Catholic church has to say on the subject ,(as for evangelizing to the Jews)

    “After excerpts from the second volume of the pope’s book on Jesus made the rounds last week, featuring his rejection of the idea that “the Jews” killed Christ, the full text adds another point with important implications for Christian/Jewish relations — in effect, that Christianity “must not concern herself with the conversion of the Jews.”…

    Because you know, the Catholic church preaches there is no ONE WAY to salvation.

    • louthesaint says:

      Why would you want to convert those that are already God’s people?

      We are all going back to Temple worship and sacrificing red heifers are we not! when Jesus sits in the third temple at Jerusalem which will be constructed by the antichrist before His return.

      It was a mistake that the Jews Killed Jesus. I think is what the Pope and many are saying.
      It don’t matter that they rejected the Messiah the first time and that God destroyed Jerusalem and all, cause He is coming the second time to give everyone a second chance.

      • owl says:

        Red heifers and temples in jerusalem, r u serious? Temple is your body not some piece of man-made architecture and red heifers have nothing to do with true followers of Christ unless you follow judaism or traditions of men.

        Judeo-Christianity is fundamentally incompatible and anyone trying to unite these two is either a new age programmed zionist or intentional agent delivering the sheep into a delusion.

        • BT says:

          Hi Owl! 🙂

          I’m pretty sure that Lou’s comment was being said sarcastically.

          • louthesaint says:

            Hello owl, sarcasm it is indeed, but relevant to how the papacy ‘presently’ view the Jews. It was not such in the past! (there is a change of tactic here) There is an inroad being built here to connect with the ‘modern evangelical (post reformed view) of judaism and Israel.
            Why would there be the need to convert Those that both groups recognise to be God’s people “The apple of His eye”
            If you put the two together, there is a compatibility, a (bridge building component) for unity within the framework of the Apostasy of 2Thes2:3 which the “Strong delusion” that is to be wrought by the hand of God could bring into a thorough blending.

            I only share what I see. and I think Hopeful_watcher is on similar watch when he said, (Pope Francis seems like the protestants dream come true. Our hopes of finally seeing eye to eye with the papacy may come to fruition). And I ask you, isn’t that just a little too tidy for your comfort?

          • BT says:

            From a story by the Vatican Insider, this story sounded rather “prophetic”…

            “It’s the challenge that could make his name immortal and it’s the WOUND HE HAS SET OUT TO HEAL. Francis’ dream is to end the schism that for a thousand years has divided the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. “If he succeeds, he will go down in history as the greatest pope that ever was,” say members of the Curia…”

            (Revelation 13:3 maybe?)

            “And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.”

          • owl says:

            Regardless it was still a relevant opportunity to insert a comment on the temple as there are multitudes that equate such to a piece of real estate to idolize 😉

          • owl says:

            @lou, the only way unification has a chance of happening is by further demoting Jesus Christ as the only way which the catholics have softly done over the years in their own ranks with the worship of mary. Another opportunity exists by playing on the confusion of the morning star whereas infiltration by freemasons are seeding the lucifer mantra hiding behind latin translation as a perfect excuse. If that all fails then they will be forced to expand the field and play the alien savior card but i very much doubt they will go this far in the current status quo. Society needs to be strained under much more pressure for this to work.

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            God is good with His word and the rich symbolism we get from that.

            For example, we all know of the symbolism of the grouping of believers is the “church” which makes up the body and Jesus is the head of that body. The head and the body have always held deep meaning about our stance in relation to Jesus and the importance of the head controlling the body.

            Could there be an even deeper and richer meaning? So a rhetorical question: is the body of a person functional and unified if they are decapitated. Clearly Jesus is present in spirit and power, but His physical presence is elsewhere. We are without a head until He returns.

            There won’t be unity IN Christ until we have Christ. All of those who believe we can have unity want to diminish Christ and elevate their own station.

          • Dee says:

            I think you are on to something. When Revelation speaks of those that were beheaded for Christ, could it mean that we removed our own head (our souls intentions, and only following the leading of the Holy Spirit)?

            And yes, I believe the leaven of the Pharisees is almost complete, because we who are of Christ feel the pressure!

            By the way, this is a secondary thought…in the mass they say it is a remembrance of what Christ did. However because Jesus Is, we do not need to re-member ourselves to Him because at the time of surrender/salvation, we are In him. Taking the eucharist over and over again so that we can ‘join ourselves to Christ’ is false hope. True repentance unto salvation is the key. A broken and contrite spirit is what the LORD draws near to and no cracker and juice/wine can ever take the place of the working of the Holy Spirit.

  11. Reposting here cuz of moderation. Link found on my name above.

    I am the consistent fence rider. While you two chastise Cris about challenging your version of the truth, be careful you don’t do the same and miss another “truth”.

    None of us should be dogmatic about our view on the nature of the deception, because we are told not to lean on our own understanding. I believe the strength of how deeply we are decieved will be directly proporational to how strongly we believe we hold the truth.

    Here is another alternative that throws a wrench into your constructed truth. All things evil and oppressive are catalysts to bring about a worldly solution to combat it. The evil in the world (which includes Sharia and the talmuud, communism and despotism and all things oppressive) give purpose to the “good” that will challenge it.

    So my thesis is that the dichotomy between good versus evil is a farce. The good that rises is not righteous and therefore a product of the evil one.

    There is only ONE universal and timeless truth that we have 100% faith in and that is our lord Jesus Christ

    • BT says:

      Hopeful, that is almost on the same level as saying “Let’s do evil so that good may come from it!”

      “Woe to them who call evil good.”..

      Also, if you study this subject long enough (Talmudism, Zionism, etc,…) it’s real hard not to wind up convinced of it’s implications and to see the damage it is causing in the world. I wouldn’t call it “dogmatic” as much as just plain “confident”, and people with a God-given sense of reason can see it.

      Yes, I get indignant about it being covered up, because to me that is just about the same as being complicit with it.
      There are sins of commission, and sins of omission,…

      That’s my opinion, for what’ it’s worth.


      • hopeful_watcher says:

        I would never suggest to do evil so that good may come it. I hope that isn’t what you got out of what I have been saying. The point I make is that people shouldn’t kid themselves thinking they are doing good when what they really are is sinfulness with a veneer of good intentions. Goodness does not equal holy righteousness.

        • BT says:

          Yeah, that is kinda how it sounds to me.

          “The evil in the world… give purpose to the “good” that will challenge it.”

          I had my own theory along those lines. I called it the “Gummy Bear Theory.”
          The more I ate Gummy Bears, the more I would brush my teeth, therefore, eating Gummy Bears brought about the action of brushing my teeth more, which was good, therefore, eating Gummy Bears was Good!

          I think maybe the Goodness Veneer you’re describing might more accurately be described as nothing more than manipulation?

          • BT says:

            But I apologize if I misunderstood you.
            I’m doing several things at the moment and maybe should have given your thesis more thought.

            You are saying there is only one “righteousness” and one cannot have that without Christ?
            Is that closer to what you meant?

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            Yes, absolutely. And the ‘good’ the world will embrace will be lukewarm, ecumenical Christian (I.e. there are many ways to heaven) or no Christ at all.

            No worries about the misunderstanding. We are all seeking the truth and I consider you a brother in that search.

          • BT says:

            I understand you now, Hopeful. 🙂

            That reminded me of this portion of a scripture…”having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.” 2 Timothy 3:5

            I looked it up at a site that includes Bible commentaries from different sources, and Matthew Henry’s is one of my favorite.

            Though it is a little long, it is also very eloquent and may shed even more light on your point.

            “Matthew Henry’s Concise Commentary

            3:1-9 Even in gospel times there would be perilous times; on account of persecution from without, still more on account of corruptions within. Men love to gratify their own lusts, more than to please God and do their duty. When every man is eager for what he can get, and anxious to keep what he has, this makes men dangerous to one another. When men do not fear God, they will not regard man. When children are disobedient to their parents, that makes the times perilous.

            …Men are unholy and without the fear of God, because unthankful for the mercies of God. We abuse God’s gifts, if we make them the food and fuel of our lusts. Times are perilous also, when parents are without natural affection to children. And when men have no rule over their own spirits, but despise that which is good and to be honoured. God is to be loved above all; but a carnal mind, full of enmity against him, prefers any thing before him, especially carnal pleasure.

            …A form of godliness is very different from the power; from such as are found to be hypocrites, real Christians must withdraw. Such persons have been found within the outward church, in every place, and at all times. There ever have been artful men, who, by pretences and flatteries, creep into the favour and confidence of those who are too easy of belief, ignorant, and fanciful. All must be ever learning to know the Lord; but these follow every new notion, yet never seek the truth as it is in Jesus. Like the Egyptian magicians, these were men of corrupt minds, prejudiced against the truth, and found to be quite without faith. Yet though the spirit of error may be let loose for a time, Satan can deceive the nations and the churches no further, and no longer, than God will permit.”

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            Wow, that was an awesome commentary. I have never read that before. Thank you for clipping and sharing that.

          • BT says:

            I agree, he is good!
            I posted the link to it, but it is awaiting moderation.

            bible.cc might be enough.
            The Online Parallel Bible
            (It works for me.)

      • hopeful_watcher says:

        BT, I wanted to address one final point.

        You said: “Also, if you study this subject long enough (Talmudism, Zionism, etc,…) it’s real hard not to wind up convinced of it’s implications and to see the damage it is causing in the world.”

        I don’t diminish or undercut your point in any way. These are causing great damage to the world and that I agree with. My only point is that the fullfillment of these theologies is not the end game. They are a means to an end. Or at least could be, if I am going to be fair and not dogmatic.

        It’s like we are observing a chess match and I say “make your bet for your salvation. Which side will win? Black or white?”

        Then we find out later that the game is rigged, because Satan is playing both sides of the board and the only way to win the bet is not to bet at all. And this is what Jesus instructs us to do. Not to bet. He says it is finished. All we need to do is have faith and proclaim it.

        • Dee says:

          Great point HW!! A little story here. Last year I took a nap during the superbowl only to awake with the family cheering the Patriots on. I said, “No need to cheer them, the Giants will win.” They all looked at me funny, b/c I know so little about football its pathetic. So this year my son asks,”So who will win the SB this year?” I said, ‘the ravens’. My son asks, “how do you know this?” I said, “I don’t. That is the Holy Spirit”. Sure enough they won. I thought about how all cheered their teams on and how ultimately all was a waste, for it wouldn’t have really mattered which team won, because they are two sides of the same coin!

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            I’d have to agree except for the fact that I am from Baltimore, lol 🙂

            Funny you say two sides of the same coin. I make that exact analogy in my thesis “Woe to us when good defeats evil.” I also compare it to the yin-Yang symbol where both sides are swirled together making two halves of a whole, which is the whole of the human experience. However, Godliness and righteousness are outside of that.

  12. louthesaint says:

    Hello Watcher; I get what you say. Jesus said “God alone is good”

    I had some JW’s call yesterday, they talked a lot about doing Good and how they had all the truth. I think that what you are saying applies to them in one small way, Because when I asked them about Grace they went all silent. (i almost had to give one lady resuscitation) LoL

    I reckon that deception is Goodness in veneer.
    A lot of people push their version of truth and in this way is Jesus misrepresented, not only Jesus but also the Spirit of Truth. Therein is the Spirit of antichrist at work within the Apostates organisations 2Th2:3

    I’s not saying that truth cannot be divided and given in portions, as it often is. As there is one God and One lord there is one truth. I can have a portion of truth revealed or I can have an extensive version of supposed truth.
    Jesus said, “A man can have nothing Lest it be Given him form above” (grace) where we seek will depend on the version of truth we receive.
    I would be interested to know your view on what you reckon the deception could possibly be.

    • Where does one begin when they get that kind of green light? 🙂

      The short answer is I believe a false Jesus will come to Earth in a manner where everyone on the planet will believe and be converted. I am not dogmatic about it, but I do lean heavily towards this.

      I spell this out making a biblical case for this in an essay I wrote called: ‘ Salvation in the Balance. Faith and deception. Truth and lies”. I linked it off of my name above, cuz i’ll get thrown into the pit of moderation if I link it in the body.

      The essay isn’t that long, but I’ll snip and paste the conclusion here as a synopsis:

      *** clip ***
      I am readyto reject any person who the entire world claims to be Christ. I will recognize falsities by knowing the truth. Anything that isn’t truth will be considered false. I will be confident in this because I have God’s word and the Holy Spirit as my guide.

      If you can not say you could do the same, you run the risk of deception.

      Jesus is coming soon! Accept no substitutes!

      • louthesaint says:

        Thank you for your reply watcher.
        I also believe that the Word of God and the Holy Spirit enlightens our paths. Sometimes the enemy throws in some spanner into the works. Just means we got to fish it out and throw it back.
        As to a false Jesus I do not know. Some are saying it will be a ‘Nephilim/hybrid messiah’, I don’t buy it, because that is what is for sale. If you consider that it is God that initiates the delusion upon all 2Thes2:11 then there need not be anything spectacular. I would go as far as to say, that without this deluding influence, unless God did it there would be none given over to the Deception.
        But as to an Antichrist/false-prophet preaching a false Jesus and uniting all outside of the Grace of God into the miry clay of Babylon Dan2:43 I reckon is the way things are shaping up.
        No one can hear the words “come out of her my people” lest they be Spirit filled sons and daughters of God and belong to the Bride of which Christ alone is the Head.
        There has always been two camps since Cain and Able and so shall it be unto the end Rev22:11,12

      • owl says:

        The easiest way to recognize the falsities of the antichrist is if the words spoken play to the ego and are without much condemnation towards our degenerate sinful lifestyles because nothing has fundamentally changed since 2000 years ago. We are all more or less hypocrites, rare are those that truly are not.

        • BT says:

          “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.”~James 4:4

          Fortunately for those who are striving to disengage from the world, the “world” is helping by becoming less and less desirable!

        • hopeful_watcher says:

          Great point owl as to falsities feeding our ego.

          Some days I am more a hypocrite than other days.

  13. louthesaint says:

    Some of the comments brings this to mind. It was said years ago that there is an threefold opposition to the Godhead. (Trinity) “satan, the antichrist and the false prophet”.

    I have recently heard it said by someone that there are three components that need to be brought together in the person of the “man of sin” in his opposition to Christ. “Apostate christianity, Zionism and Mohamedism”

    I wonder if it has anything to do with Rev16:13

  14. Moose says:

    Okay everyone, I’m going to shoot straight from the Bible, so listen up! The “Sons of God” are “heirs to salvation.” Angels in Heaven do NOT need saving. Got that? The 1/3 of angels cast down with Lucifer are being held in chains in darkness until Judgment Day and CANNOT be saved. Demons also CANNOT be saved. Got that? Good. That means the “Sons of God” mentioned in Genesis who came down and mated with women, were NOT demons or angels but rather were the “Sons of God,” who like us, are also heirs to salvation; something the fallen angels will never be! A Jewish scholar pointed out that per Genesis the giants were already here BEFORE the “Sons of God” descended. So, the “Sons of God” did NOT create the giants, but rather “men of reknown;” as in supersmart. Those who live elsewhere in the universe, therefore, are not angels or demons, but the product of God’s creativity!!!!!!! The bk. of Revelation refers to “stars” as angels. When the bk. of Job says that at Creation the stars sang and the Sons of God shouted for joy, that means the stars (per Revelation) were the angels. The “Sons of God” were us humans (and ETS) who were preordained to come to this universe and play out our roles as humans. Got that? If not, you need to do a very indepth study of the scriptures instead of looking at the opinions of others to decide this controversial issue. God is much bigger than the box most have put Him in.

    • louthesaint says:

      Where in Genesis does it say that the “Sons of God” descended?
      The book of Job implies that the morning stars belong to the firmament of created matter and not angelic beings which were already created Job38:4-11 Ya’ll Got to keep the context otherwise it is a spanner in the works.
      However so, I do agree that the giants are not the offsprings of Angels mating with women (fallen angels are not sons of God. But there was a race of men upon the earth in those days Gen6:4 and that they are some what of the dinosaur era.
      Was Nimrod a men of renown, a mighty hunter before the Lord? some say he was a giant hybrid, but the word says he was a descendent of Cush Gen10: 1Chr1:10 as were those in the land of Canaan in the time of Joshua of Human racial lineage (sons of the Anakim) and not fallen angels Deut1:28 ancestral descendents of Anak Num13:28,33

      • louthesaint says:

        I forgot to mention that Anak had a father and his name was ‘Arba’ Joshua21:11

  15. hopeful_watcher says:

    Holy smoky bear Batman, I think I just watched one of the greatest new world order propaganda hit pieces ever.

    Watched the real time play of a new game that came out yesterday. It’s called Bioshock Infinite.

    If you watch any of this on youtube, be forewarned some of it is incredibly violent.

    As an overview, the world has been divided into a prosperous world called New Eden and the rest of the world is in shambles. The game is filled with biblical references and overtones at every turn. Now get this, all the citizens of “Columbia” which is the name of the city that is suspended in the sky like some spaceship are the chosen righteous ones. Well apparently they are all white supremicist bigots (no lie it is in the game and not veiled at all). And the ruler of the city is the Prophet who requires people to.be baptized to.enter the city. You are an infiltrator from the ruined world seeking a girl. You have a brand on your hand that says, AD (close to AC tight?) And all.who have the mark.on their hand are followers of the “False Prophet.”

    This is.absolutely incredible. The hero of the game, you as a player, is suppressed and most likely wrongfully accussed by the “holy” and obviously phony bigoted group who controls society to build their utopia. And what core set of endtimes beliefs does this group share with? Yep, Christian eschatology! We are the bigots who suppress, according to this game.

    • hopeful_watcher says:

      One more comment. There are lots of “UFO” type powers from heaven are our savior type references in the game too and some heavy dose of salvation through works.

  16. Guy says:

    Christ resides inside your heart as does the anti-Christ.You decide which one to follow.Stop looking outside of yourself for answers.

    • hopeful_watcher says:

      Yes, this is true. Now how do you sell that to an unbeliever who places their faith in the external realities of the world. Or are you only concerned with your own salvation and disregard the great commission?

      • Guy says:

        I do not believe that I should be selling my belief to anyone.I was just making a comment that is my truth.
        Forgive me for repeating myself,the great commission as you call it will take care of itself in the field of unity consciousness .

        • hopeful_watcher says:

          Um.. how do you profess to know the truth of Christ, when you do not understand His most basic instruction to us?

          “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”

          Unity consciousness? What kind of antichrist teaching is this?

          • Guy says:

            You base your belief in faith and that is a measure of wanting to believe ,we are on different planes and therefore we can’t communicate.
            I honor the place in you where Christ resides.

      • owl says:

        What you are saying is based on the old cherokee tale of the good and evil wolf within and which one you feed determines your outcome. That is a simplistic philosophical view which can be understood by the human intellect that gnostics as yourself who are after knowledge and who falsely think they can figure out the mind of God love to rely upon. Unfortunately it does not work in the greater scheme of higher spiritual realms where satan can present himself as an angel of light and righteousness to lure into a trap.

        Without the help of the Holy Spirit you are blind and less than nothing.

  17. T/11 1N says:

    For those who refuse to believe in the existence of off/inner-world brothers and sisters, I can only refer you to the aforementioned websites and Joshua’s words on same.

  18. Michael York says:

    Outside the center of union
    The negative region promotes
    An infinite loop of division
    The which the source denotes
    Substance and form from fragments
    Give rise to periodic waves
    Out of which perception is sculpted
    Relative distances at once portrayed
    To which this bilateral body
    Sitting betwixt two opposite degrees
    Looks inward and outward
    Paying particular attention
    To precise patterns we see
    Assuming that form follows function
    Particulate energies defined discreet
    The negation of the negation
    Within us the cycle is complete

  19. Michael York says:

    Original Immutability forces any direct counterforce
    To ultimately be the undoing of itself
    The carrier and harbinger of its own destruction

    God’s purpose in creating is to have an object (Us)
    on which to display and bestow His incomparable LOVE
    without the Human Drama God’s Love would be an Idea
    not an action. Love is an action verb. In Love is a state of
    being which is subjective. We become the proven and the proof
    of God’s Love

  20. neil says:

    admittedly, i haven’t read the book. is the central thesis of the work that the antichrist will be said to be alien by the catholic church? an argument against this would seem to be in revelation 13:18:

    “here is wisdom. let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred three score and six.”

    if the number of the beast is the number of a “man,” how then can the antichrist be considered an alien?

    • owl says:

      there are no aliens unless you consider demonic entities alien… antichrist will first arrive as a man, a jewish messiah with faked lineage to david, a peacemaker with many solution tricks in his pocket but will get demonized in the process by lucifer/satan… modern society brainwashed with scifi and pseudo science over the years will get sold the alien lie… many will buy into the lie as they are not aware of the technology that exists that will manipulate their five senses to make it quite believable.

      • neil says:

        thanks for the reply, it makes sense now. i was presupposing that the world would believe that the antichrist is a man…failing to decouple my biblical-based world from other possible worlds. of course, the a non-biblical world doesn’t pay mind to the wisdom of revelation 13:18; thus, they could believe this person is an alien or any sort of entity imaginable.


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