Confusion About Sunday Worship

sundaymorningworshipMany in the Hebrew Roots Movement accuse New Testament followers of Jesus of “changing the Sabbath to Sunday.” But that is not really the case. The Sabbath did not change but the covenant changed and Sabbath observance is part and parcel of the obsolete Mosaic covenant. The Sabbath did not change the covenant did (Heb 8:13). Christians began to meet on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7) because that is the day Jesus rose from the dead.  This is supported by early church documents like Justin Martyr’s First Apology. Justin was taught by Polycarp who was a disciple of John the Apostle who was taught by the Lord Jesus. Justin wrote

But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; andJesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration. (1st Apology, 67)

It seems to me Justin was in a much better position to know than modern HRMers two thousand years removed.

About Cris Putnam
Logos Apologia is the ministry of Cris D. Putnam. The mission of Logos Apologia is to show that logic, science, history and faith are complementary, not contradictory and to bring that life-changing truth to everybody who wants to know.

Comments

  1. Lyndell says:

    Thank you, I’ve been struggling with what to do.

  2. Darren says:

    Your analysis is pretty limited Cris. You haven’t given both sides of the debate. Paul, Peter, and all the disciples still attended the synagogue on the Sabbath as well. (eg. Acts 13). I’m still not clear why that part of the 10 commandments would be different than the rest of the commandments.

    Still, Paul in Colossians 2:16 says “Let no man judge you in regards to … Sabbath days.” And I was able to find several more quotes supporting your statements above, from the early writers.

    Does it make a difference? Perhaps not. Perhaps yes. I still haven’t come to a firm conclusion. But belittling the HRM is not the way to go. Biltz, Kahn, and musicians like Joshua Aaron and Paul Wilbur have brought wonderful truths to the church. For me, observing the Feasts of the Lord, and learning how each one is centred in the prophetic fulfillment of Jesus Christ, has been incredible.

    So I am unclear why this seems to be a burr in your side. Not all believers who are looking into our Hebrew roots are legalistic and dogmatic about it.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      Darren my purpose wasn’t to present “both sides” but the reason for Sunday worship. I inevitably encounter strawman arguments like “the Sabbath did not change” from the other side. So I addressed it right at the top, even so, I have comments on Facebook saying the same thing… they don’t even read what they comment on!

      You are right that most of there apostles were Jewish and so they probably kept up with Jewish practices like Sabbath keeping but these were NEVER for gentiles. The covenant changed during their lifetimes and they were Jews so it makes sense they would keep the old practices. Non Jews have no reason to follow suit. The Mosaic covenant was never for gentiles. The Acts 15 council did not mention Sabbath keeping. Paul made it clear it is not required in Romans and Colossians.
      “One person prefers one day over another day, and another person regards every day alike. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind.”(Ro 14:5)Here is the ESV study bible note:

      “14:5 The weak thought some days were more important than others. Given the Jewish background here (see v. 14), the day that is supremely in view is certainly the Sabbath. The strong think every day is the same. Both views are permissible. Each person must follow his own conscience. What is remarkable is that the Sabbath is no longer a binding commitment for Paul but a matter of one’s personal conviction. Unlike the other nine commandments in Ex. 20:1–17, the Sabbath commandment seems to have been part of the “ceremonial laws” of the Mosaic covenant, like the dietary laws and the laws about sacrifices, all of which are no longer binding on new covenant believers (see also Gal. 4:10; Col. 2:16–17). However, it is still wise to take regular times of rest from work, and regular times of worship are commanded for Christians (Heb. 10:24–25; cf. Acts 20:7).”

      Crossway Bibles, The ESV Study Bible (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2008), 2181.

      Also:
      “Therefore do not let anyone judge you with reference to eating or drinking or participation in a feast or a new moon or a Sabbath,(Col 2:16)

      • Philip says:

        Cris, how do you read our Lord’s admonitions for the end time in Mt.24:20, that we should pray that our flight be not on the sabbath day?

        • Martin says:

          Phillip,

          Good question. I will try and help with this one. He is speaking to the Jews (The elect) during the tribulation, specifically this marks the last 3 1/2 year of the 7 year tribulation. He is speaking about the “abomination of desolation” that will take place in the temple. The believers have been raptured by this point.

          Also if you read Mt24:20 how will people know that the abomination of desolation is being placed in the Holy of Holies. The answer is now people have access to internet, social media, tv etc etc. everyone will know.

          God is not finished with his chosen people, his promises he always keeps.

          in Hosea 5:15 it states
          “I will go away and return to My place Until they acknowledge their guilt and seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”

      • Cynthia Lauren Thorpe says:

        Nope. I’m sorry, Cris. I’m not going to be ‘edified’ in the way you ‘edify others’, by really demeaning them. Your ‘spirit/tone’ of your ‘articles’ is being shown as being based on human rationale, rather than the Bible and Jesus’s love of Truth.

        I wanted to initially ask you which of the other 10 Commandments you’re ‘cool about’ getting rid of, instead of just the 4th one. But, heck. Nope. I don’t see an ‘open honest discussion’, here at all.

        You’re getting very jaded, Cris. I don’t ‘see Jesus, at all’ in your verbiage. Nope. Not a bit. And, that’s a hallmark of a Christian’s walk…so, I guess all that’s left to say is I pray that this road you’re on finally leads you to where God really wants you to be with Him. (I’ve got no hidden meanings, or couched nastiness in my heart as I type this to you. And, it’s sad, but ‘funny/odd’ that you have Koinonia’s logo over here to my immediate right… ’cause I can’t imagine Chuck Missler writing in the manner that you do, either. Perhaps you could ask him to critique your words, then you’d take more heed to what is being presented to you.

        And, ‘no’. I’m no scholar, but ~ I do know God’s Word, and I do have discernment even though Jesus isn’t handing out ‘degrees’ in the Truth/Love Department, as of this moment.

        May Jesus guide your steps, always Cris.

        Cynthia Lauren Thorpe

        • look2thesky says:

          😀

          Cynthia – when the truth about the Sabbath began to be shown to me – that was one of the first questions that came to mind – if it’s right to disregard the 4th commandment then we should be “cool about” disregarding all of them right? Equivocado! Wrong!

          “He who loves me will keep my commandments”

          Thanks for speaking truth to “authority”
          For whatever reason (I think we know why) Mr. Putnam seems to be an instigator of discord – may his eyes be opened –

          If one doesn’t understand and adhere to the teachings of the Son of Man – he/she won’t understand the subsequent teachings of the Apostle Paul – or the teachings of any of the other “renewed covenant” writers –

          Mr. Putnam and others need to realize that Christ never said Paul’s or Peter’s or anyone else’s words would stand forever – He said that His Words and His alone would still stand after the earth and the heavens passed away – a point disregarded or forgotten by most –

          I sent a reply to your last messages on the Christmas/Dec25th thread but there’s a message that says it needs to be approved/pass the censors – 😀

          Have a Great Day and Thanks again!

      • Bruce says:

        The first covenant was ratified by the sprinkling of the Blood, Exodus 24: 5-8

        The Covenant was ratified by the blood of Jesus Christ at the Cross, Hebrews 12:14 – 13:12, 20

        You should also note: Hebrews 9:16-17, “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.”

        Galatians 3:15, “Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.”

        Therefore, the scripture states that the testator (Jesus Christ) died to confirm the New Testament (Hebrews 9:16). And that nothing could be added to this New Covenant once it was confirmed, when Jesus died (Galatians 3:15). Jesus died on Friday, so the New Testament went in force on Friday (Hebrews 9:17). Jesus was resurrected on Sunday. Sunday keeping did not exist before the New Testament was confirmed. So if Sunday was added to the New Testament after Jesus died, that means it was added after the New Testament was confirmed. So, according to the scripture, it is not part of the New Testament, because this is something that was added after the New Testament was confirmed!

        The fact is that Sundaykeeping, even if it had started on the day of the resurrection, would have been three days too late to get into the New Covenant. Both Bible and history prove that Sunday was never observed by the apostolic church. It was added much, much later as a result of the gradual apostasy which developed in the early centuries of the church and which culminated in the pagan accommodation of Constantine in 330 A.D.

        Millions of modern church members regard Sunday as a sacred day which memorializes the resurrection of Christ. It is certainly true that Christ arose on the first day of the week, but nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to keep that day holy. Events such as the crucifixion and resurrection should mean much to every bondman of Christ, but not one intimation is given in the Bible for observing either Friday or Sunday. The only day ever commanded for weekly worship is the seventh day of the week – the same Sabbath Jesus kept during creation week and the one He will keep with His people throughout all eternity (Genesis 2:1-3, Isaiah 66:22, 23).

        The very strongest reason for rejecting Sunday worship is that it was not included in the New Covenant requirements which were ratified by the death of Jesus. If Christ had desired His resurrection to be memorialized by Sundaykeeping, He could have introduced it on that same Thursday night of the Last Supper. Then it would have become a part of the New Covenant, along with the Communion service and the observance of His death, even though it had not taken place yet. Just as easily He could have commanded the observance of His resurrection, which was still future, in order that it might become a New Covenant requirement. But He did not!

        • look2thesky says:

          Bruce –
          Thank You!

          • Bruce says:

            Sorry my last comment was intended for Cris – in addition to my other comments, it should also be noted, regarding the 4th commandment – It is important to realize that the laws that give us a knowledge of sin (i.e., laws that define evil), are not an outward symbol, religious rite, ceremony, or sacrifice, which was to be abolished. One cannot say that he who breaks the letter of the law of adultery, will be reckoned to him as if he did not commit adultery, as long as he kept the spirit of adultery while committing physical adultery. To say that the 4th commandment is different and should be grouped as ceremony, is without a doubt, outside of Biblical (hermeneutics) guidelines. The weight of evidence tells us that it is a part of the 10 commandments.
            Satan said – “I want to be like the most High”, in doing so he created his own day of worship. That day is none other than Sunday. Sorry there is not enough room here to go into detail on the latter topic. Research! Research! Research!

      • Bruce says:

        May I ask the reason why you believe these verses say the Sabbath is “ceremonial”? Is it because the Sabbath day is mentioned along with the “ceremonial laws”? I agree that the Sabbath is mentioned right alongside the “ceremonial laws”. But the question is, does this mean the Sabbath was a “ceremonial law” also, just because it is mentioned alongside other ceremonial and temporary laws?

        If the answer is “yes,” then this criteria must also work for other laws as well. In my studies, it does not always work, because God’s Laws (those that are still binding upon us today) are mixed in with temporary laws many times in scripture.

        For example, Deuteronomy 22. If you read this chapter, the “temporal, ceremonial, and eternal” laws are all mixed together. Among these temporary and ceremonial laws, such as wearing mixed fibers and wearing fringes, it also mentions the sin of adultery. Does this mean that adultery was a ceremonial law, because it is mentioned among all these other ceremonial laws? Of course not.

        Therefore, just because a particular law is mentioned right alongside ceremonial laws, we cannot use this as a criteria to discern if this law was ceremonial or not. Even if it is mentioned in the same verse! The Old Testament says if someone steals, then one must make a trespass offering. Now, the trespass offering has been abolished, but the sin of stealing has not been abolished. If one was to go by the fact that the sin of stealing is mentioned in the same exact passage as a ceremonial law (trespass offering), and conclude that the law of stealing is a ceremonial law simply based upon the fact that it is mentioned alongside other ceremonial laws, would not be a correct conclusion.

        Likewise, we cannot presume that any other law of God is ceremonial, simply because it is mentioned right alongside other ceremonial laws.

        • Bruce says:

          Sorry my last comment was intended for Cris – in addition to my other comments, it should also be noted, regarding the 4th commandment – It is important to realize that the laws that give us a knowledge of sin (i.e., laws that define evil), are not an outward symbol, religious rite, ceremony, or sacrifice, which was to be abolished. One cannot say that he who breaks the letter of the law of adultery, will be reckoned to him as if he did not commit adultery, as long as he kept the spirit of adultery while committing physical adultery. To say that the 4th commandment is different and should be grouped as ceremony, is without a doubt, outside of Biblical (hermeneutics) guidelines. The weight of evidence tells us that it is a part of the 10 commandments.
          Satan said – “I want to be like the most High”, in doing so he created his own day of worship. That day is none other than Sunday. Sorry there is not enough room here to go into detail on the latter topic. Research! Research! Research!

  3. jaz says:

    The covenant indeed changed. The New has rendered the old Obsolete Heb8:13 Feasts and sabbaths matter no more with God for Christ is the substance We of the ‘True circumcision’ Phil3:3 who have entered the Sabbath rest of God worship in “Spirit and in Truth” as Christ rightly said.
    The Hebrew-root folks have one foot in Mt Zion and the other in Mt Sinai and as such on slippery ground.
    When the shaking begins they will fall as we need to have both feet on the Rock of the one who came from Zion Isa59:20,21

  4. JT says:

    Forgive me if I’m mistaken in my interpretation of the verses you listed as supporting evidence of Sunday worship, but in Hebrews it appears to me if you read the whole chapter he is talking about God making a new covenant after the tribulation period. It says that the Lord will put the laws on their minds, and write them on their hearts, and no longer will they say to one another “Know the Lord” because they will all know Him. That definitely does not describe the world we live in today does it? Also in Acts it does say Paul broke bread with them on the first day of the week, but nothing about that being a new Sabbath day, or teaching the church that they should meet on that day. Paul met with them on that day, and spoke with them until midnight because he had much to say to them, and was leaving the next day for Jerusalem, and knew he would not see their faces again. The apology you also listed is incorrect as it states that Christ was crucified on a Saturday, and then arose the next day on a Sunday. We know that Jesus was in the tomb for 3 days before rising from the dead, not 1. Please show me if my logic is incorrect on this, but based of what you have shown here I don’t see anything that changes God commanding us to observe the 7th day as a Sabbath day. The only thing that appears to be changing is God’s covenant with us after the time of the tribulation. For the record I am not a Hebrew roots teacher of any sort, just a simple Christian who wants to understand the truth in all that God’s word tells us, and I can’t find anywhere that the Sabbath commandment has been changed, or done away with.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      JT “God making a new covenant after the tribulation period” is mistaken; Jesus is our new high priest now according to the text. The tense of the verbs indicates it had already occurred hence: “And because of this, he is the mediator of a new covenant, in order that, because a death has taken place for the redemption of transgressions committed during the first covenant, those who are the called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.”(Heb 9:15) The new covenant was inaugurated by His sacrificial death; HRMers are trampling the Gospel.

  5. jaz says:

    The New covenant is the “eternal covenant”. There is not going back to the old covenant. God has moved forward in the process of redemption.
    After the tribulation comes the end, when Christ returns to judge the living and the dead rewarding each man for their deeds Rev22:12.
    Furthermore; When the end comes, it is the Kingdom of God the Father ratified by the New Covenant made up of only (the redeemed of the Lord) that will be forever established when Christ “delivers up His kingdom to the God and Father” 1Cor15:24 and He himself (Jesus) is subjected to the Father 1Cor15:28

    It is a fallacy of theology that gives the hope of salvation to any man post the return of Christ.
    Hebrew-root and pro Jewish messianic folks who maintain that there is to be a renewal of the Old covenant are gravely mistaken. If Christ indeed be our High-Priest forever as Mr Putman rightly said, Then it is also true that His Finished sacrifice alone accomplished the redemptive purposes of God the Father by the shed blood of Messiah.There are to be no more sacrifices to suggest otherwise is to tread under-foot the Blood of the eternal covenant which many are presently doing…..

    • Darren says:

      Jaz, I don’t know any, and I know a fair number, HRM/pro-Jewish people who are maintaining that there is to be a renewal of the Old Covenant. That isn’t the point at all. That would entail re-enacting the book of Leviticus and having a herd of animals ready. Every single person and teaching we’ve listened to is Jesus Jesus Yeshua Yeshua.

      And that’s the point! A deep study of EVERYTHING our Father placed in the OT points to JESUS! It’s amazing, glorifying, incredible. But the church I grew up in taught none of it. The OT was hardly used, hardly preached from. And that’s tragic.

    • Bruce says:

      To Jaz: happy to help. All praise be to God.

  6. Myself says:

    Cris,

    The fact that your site comments contain more arguments against your position than for it should lead you to consider that maybe someone is trying to tell you something that you don’t want to hear.

    • Philip says:

      Just in case you (@’Myself’) counted me as ‘against’, let me clearly state that I am in favour of sunday worship. I was just asking Cris something, not as criticism or anything.

      • Myself says:

        Philip, I am also in favor of worship on Sunday and every other day for that matter. However I don’t find biblical evidence that the Sabbath commandment has been done away with or changed. If it was good enough for Jesus and his disciples it is good enough for me. How can we say “WWJD” or follow him in all things and somehow we consider this one irrelevant? I can tell you without question all nations will observe the Sabbath in the millennium. Why not start practicing now? I was also referencing his other posts not just this one.

        • Philip says:

          How are you certain that our modern day Saturday is still the same 7th day of Jesus’ time? We’ve moved from a Julian to a Gregorian calendar in the mean time. Twelve days have been taken out of the loop in the 16th century. Have you considered those things?

          • Myself says:

            I cannot be certain save for the Bible and the Holy spirit. However I can find no convincing evidence biblical or otherwise that the day of the week has ever changed and I have looked extensively. The year is another story. So to answer your question yes i have considered this. Is the God of the universe, creator of all things capable of blessing and hollowing a day but he cant help us keep track of it? Any serious study or theologian will agree that our Saturday is the 7th day Sabbath. Likewise no one argues that our current Sunday cant be traced back to the “Lords Day” first day of the week.

            Let me pose a similar question for you. Can you be certain that Christ rose on the first day of the week? According to the Bible we only know that he had already risen on the morning that Mary arrived at the tomb. We can speculate that he rose Sunday morning however we don’t even really have scriptural authority to call Sunday the Lords Day. It is simply based on our best understanding.
            Don’t get me wrong I am not arguing that Christ didn’t rise on Sunday just that this is not clearly stated in the Bible.

            All this being said, I am as certain as I can be however, ” I reserve the right to change my theology in mid air”

            If you discovered that the Bible teaches to observe the actual 7th day Sabbath would you try? If so I would challenge you to study all the Bible has to say about it. May i suggest that you start in Exodus. I find it amusing that way back at mount Sinai God told us to “Remember the Sabbath” it is the only commandment with a Remember emphasis. It is almost as if God knew that his children would forget it in the future…

          • Philip says:

            Evidence otherwise: The secular world -in the form of the International Organization for Standardization- adopted ISO8601 in 1988 and ruled that monday is the first day of the week.

            @’Myself’ (I hate to talk to myself; can’t you come up with some original name?), let me tell you what I did, 15y ago. After I had studied all arguments I could find on the sabbath subject, I had a personal ‘most likely candidate’. But I decided to put it to the test. 4 weeks in a row I took a different strategy. First week I would honour the Saturday sabbath, 2nd week I would purposely dishonor the sabbath, 3rd week I would honour the Sundayrest and 4th week dishonour it. After having followed this procedure I believe it was made clear to me (what exactly happened are pearls I keep to myself) that I should honour the Sunday as the day of rest and keep it holy. To convene with brothers and sisters upon the first day to worship the Lord, to break bread (Acts 20:7) and give offerings(1 Cor.16:2). I do so in line with the Bible, in line with 2000 years of Christian tradition and supported by my conscience. I have put the matter to rest.

          • Joshua says:

            I suppose if you like this better you can call me Joshua. I am very glad to hear that you have also studied this and i appreciate your willingness to discuss, even though you have put it to rest. I hope that I am not stirring up a spirit of anger and that we can continue without discord. The International Organization for Standardization has also changed their mind at least 4 times since and if you study their reckoning you will see they don’t know. They attempt to standardize the reckoning of time they don’t really try to confirm or deny our current reckoning. They themselves admit this. We have sources for dating that have not changed since the time of Christ and even if they were correct that that Monday is the first day of the week then why call Sunday the Lords day? If you believe what you propose you break bread on the 7th day Sabbath but call it Sunday wile arguing that the 4th commandment has been done away with. It just doesn’t add up. Did you have some warfare when you attempted to observe the 7th day Sabbath? I would expect nothing less. Sometimes the truth is hard. I Pray that God will reveal to you his truth and protect you from the attacks that may come with it. I wont pray for you to believe me, just that you will see truth regardless of weather I’m right or wrong. Peace be with you brother.

          • Philip says:

            @Joshua (much better :-),

            I did not put the ISO argument before you as my personal belief and my willingness to discuss is rapidly diminishing, for you are indeed stirring up a spirit of anger. You know everything better already and you don’t seem to be able to reach my wavelength. Do you suggest that only when I obey Saturday observance, only then God has revealed His truth to me? And only then attacks will commence? I wonder what environment you live in. In my parallel dimension Sunday worship is under fierce attack, mainly from secularists but also from muslims and brothers and sisters in the HRM. I am socially ostracized, jobs are being denied, yeah I was under the impression that I already received my portion. But you know this is still nothing compared to what you experience, is that what you’re saying?

            Tell me, are you now preparing for sabbath, will you be reciting kiddush, won’t you kindle a fire, and stay of the internet in a few hours time? How strict are you in keeping the sabbath?

      • Myself says:

        Please note I am grateful and enjoy Cris’s work but all of us miss something.

    • Martin says:

      Or maybe that more people are confused than are not? I would not want to base my actions on what the most popular positions are. I think the simple question for all the posters above is, does me worshiping on Sunday or Saturday have anything to do with my salvation? That’s a simple question. If you say yes, then Christ died for nothing, as Paul clearly teaches.

      • Myself says:

        Amen Brother!

        The answer is “by no means” will our chosen day of worship contribute to our salvation. Salvation is through Faith in Christ alone. No one will argue that as we are sanctified we are not to become more and more like Christ as we learn and grow, Faith without works is dead. So should we disregard the commandments “by no means”

      • Myself says:

        Should we put our faith in the law “by no means”. Should we uphold the law by all means, this is sanctification. We wrestle with our flesh and strive to follow Jesus in all things. If we pick and chose we are simply giving in to flesh. Will we ever live our life without committing sin? Dose this mean that we should not try to turn from sin?
        1 Corinthians 15:56
        Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God (1 John 3:4) and rebellion against God. Look it up in any dictionary. If God has abolished his own commandments there is no longer any such thing as sin and in this case Christ also died for nothing. If we say that the law is not abolished and it is just the 4th command that has been abolished then can I pick one to abolish also? He didn’t come to abolish the law he came to fulfill it. We all fail in our obedience but we should still seek to be obedient. It is our flesh that tells us we don’t need to obey.
        Genesis 3:1 (ESV)

        3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made.
        He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”

      • Myself says:

        To say my position is the popular one is in error. Just try to find a Gospel believing, Sabbath observing Church. Seventh day Adventist don’t cut it.

      • Philip says:

        Yes, me worshiping on Sunday has something to do with my salvation. Yet Christ died not for nothing. Paul does not teach that, certainly not clearly.

        • Myself says:

          My apologies, I must not have clearly articulated my belief. Sabbath observance will not determine your salvation. Nether will Sunday worship, getting baptized, sharing the Gospel, praying, studying Gods word, etc. These things do not determine our salvation, they only determine our obedience. Should we say don’t bother getting baptized you are already saved, or why share the Gospel since God is in control anyway? Christ did die for something! He died so that we can be forgiven of our sin not so we could continue a life of sin without care. This doesn’t mean we should continue to sin because we are saved, although he is gracious and merciful to forgive us when we do. Should we commit adultery because we know God will forgive us if we do?

          Paul clearly teaches that we are to uphold the law but upholding the law is not our salvation.
          Romans 3:31 (ESV)
          31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

          I could never understand why people think Paul taught that we don’t need to keep the law. I have been given many ambiguous text in attempts to prove this however, in order to do so you must reject Paul’s clear and concise texts in favor of texts that aren’t specific. Paul was put on trial being charged with teaching against the law and Paul clearly rejects this as not true. It is Paul’s first desire that we would come to a saving Faith first, than that we would grow, uphold the law and share the Gospel. I don’t understand how this is not clear.

          • look2thesky says:

            Myself,

            Thank you for your ongoing efforts to explain the obvious to folks who’ve been misled with false teaching and to those who obviously don’t want to acknowlege the truth for fear of having to admit they’ve been duped. To do so, these would then have to reevaluate their “world view”, their theological foundation, and then have to discard the things to which they so tenaciously cling and humbly embrace to truth –
            The Sabbath question is so basic I tire of the ongoing debate –

            “Paul clearly teaches that we are to uphold the law but upholding the law is not our salvation.
            Romans 3:31 (ESV)
            31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

            I could never understand why people think Paul taught that we don’t need to keep the law.”

            Thank you for stating it so plainly!

            Remember, Christ taught there comes a time to shake the dust off of your sandals in protest against those who refuse to accept the truth –

            There’s a fine line separating constructive debate and wasting your time –

            Thanks again for your insightful posts!

            Take care –

          • Myself says:

            Look2thesky,

            Thanks for the encouraging words. I will never tire of trying to help my brothers see the truth in the Bible. I have been beaten and burned for my beliefs and rejected by my church family of over ten years because i found this truth. I didn’t know this when i was saved, It took many years of prayer and study for me to come to grips with the fact that what i thought and was brought up with was not biblical. God only gives us what we can handle and for this reason some don’t see. This is why my savior spoke in parable. The bible tells me that Gods children will return to the truth in his word leading up to Christs return and I believe that we are seeing the start of that. Anyone who prays diligently and asked God to revel the Truth of this matter come to the same conclusion. Most will not invest the time.

          • look2thesky says:

            Myself,

            Follow where the Spirit of Truth is leading you my brother –
            “For all who are being led by the Spirit of El Elyon, these are the sons of El Elyon”
            and try not to get discouraged –
            Like you mentioned – “Most will not invest the time” in prayer and diligent seeking of the truth so we have to accept the old saying: “You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink”
            I’ll pray and continue to pray for you and yours –

  7. Myself says:

    Thanks much! I could always use more payer. As of today I started a new Ministry with the mission of bringing the children of God back to biblical truth. Call it a re-reformation if you like. Lofty goal i know. You have my prayer also hope to meet you in person one day 😉

  8. Joshua says:

    I am no better than you. I wrestle with sin in my life daily. I simply wish to encourage a brother to take a second look. I will pray for you and for employment difficulty. What line of work are you in and what area of the country?

    • Martin says:

      Thought this might help. Lots of discussion here. From straightandnarrowministy.com.
      helps articulate my thoughts.

      One of the most divisive questions Christians face is which day we should assemble to worship. Saturday? Sunday? Wednesday? As in all things the answer is in Scripture. In the creation account we are given facts of God’s work during the six days of creation, and then we read “Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.” Genesis 2:1-3. That sounds pretty simple but is it really that simple? Did God really need to rest? No, but He gave us an example to follow and we need to pay attention. At that time in history there were only two humans…Adam and Eve. They were neither Jew nor Gentile, so this example of a day of rest is to all people.

      The seventh day is sacred to the Jews and Scripture tells us that it is a sign between them and God. “And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my Sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. Ye shall keep the Sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.” Exodus 31:12-17. The Sabbath is so important to God that He says that the Jews who do not keep it are to be put to death. These words were written on stone tablets by God’s own finger. Notice that it is a day of rest and that it is a sign between God and Israel.

      This simple instruction that the Jews were to rest from work on the Sabbath was expanded into a list of rules – a list of 39 actions which define work. Then, those 39 actions were expanded on so that observing the Sabbath by Jewish Law and tradition is quite an undertaking. Nobody was more meticulous about such things than the Pharisees. The works required by the Law were vigorously enforced by them, but when Jesus – God incarnate – walked among men, He seems to have gone out of His way to challenge this Law as interpreted by the Pharisees. For instance, one day He and His disciples were hungry on the Sabbath “And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.” Mark 2:23. According to the oral law this act broke a number of Laws: reaping, threshing, winnowing, and selecting for instance. Why would God, Jesus who gave the Law to Moses, break His own law? Jesus didn’t break any of the other Laws such as stealing or committing adultery, so why pick on this one? He wasn’t breaking the Law but was making a strong point to the Pharisees, and to us. “And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.” Mark 2:27-28. People need a day of rest and God approves of it, but turning it into religious works is not what God intended. Works cannot save anyone.

      There were many instances when Jesus went against the Pharisees idea of keeping the Sabbath. Many times He healed people on the Sabbath, which was also prohibited. In fact, this is what angered the Pharisees enough to seek to destroy Him. One Sabbath Jesus healed a man who had a withered hand. “And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.” Mark 3:6. If they had only understood who they were seeking to destroy they might have reconsidered their feelings. Jesus demonstrated that the Sabbath is a day of rest given to man by God, not a day to prove how holy you are.

      Eventually the Jews did have Jesus arrested and crucified, but instead of destroying Him like they intended, He was victorious. Because of His death, burial, and resurrection we who earnestly place our faith in Him will live eternally – Jews and Gentiles alike. Jesus fulfilled the Law, but He did not destroy it. “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Matthew 5:17-18. When Jesus did “work” on the Sabbath He was not breaking the Law; He was demonstrating that the Pharisees had missed the point of the Sabbath. It was not just another work of religion, but a day of rest.

      After Jesus had ascended into Heaven the Apostles and other believers continued to share the Good News. Many Jews came to accept Christ as their Saviour, but so did many Gentiles. This caused a problem. How could Gentiles be saved without first being under the Law? “But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.” Galatians 3:23-25.Paul, a self-described “Pharisee of Pharisees”, recognized that the Law taught God’s “rules” and also the sacrifices required to atone for our inability to keep the Law. Christians are saved by grace through faith in the once for all sacrifice of Jesus Christ. He paid our sin-debt in full. Works of the Law cannot save anyone, nor can any works of religion.

      The question regarding Gentile believers was an important one and the Apostles came together to prayerfully decide what should be required of them. After much discussion Peter said “Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.” Acts 15:10-12. Though the specific question being considered was whether Gentiles would have to be circumcised in order to be saved, Peter’s words bring into question the entire Law. After more discussion, James declared his thoughts “Wherefore my sentence is, that we not trouble them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: but that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.” Acts 15:19-20. The Gentiles who turn to God – those who have earnestly accepted Christ as their Saviour – need not first come under the Law. It is faith in Christ’s finished work on the cross that saves and not the Law or works.

      Aside from having a day of rest it is important for Christians to have fellowship with other Christians. The writer of Hebrews encourages Christians to assemble together. “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another, and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.” Hebrews 10:25. There is a strong need for Christians to meet together, but does this mean that if you sit in a pew for an hour or so one day a week you meet this need? Not really. Attending worship services, singing hymns of praise, and hearing a stirring sermon are important to Christian growth, but assembling together isn’t limited to one day a week. Everyday get-togethers with fellow Christians are important too. This is one way we encourage each other and stay strong in our faith. Become a part of a home fellowship or host one, invite fellow Christians to your home for dinner and then talk about our Lord rather than the latest baseball scores, spend time with Christian friends and encourage each other to remain steady and true in following Christ. These are all ways to assemble together in addition to formal worship services.

      So, the question remains, when to we worship? Do we worship on the Sabbath (sundown Friday through sundown Saturday)? Do we worship on Sunday (the first day of the week recognizing that Jesus arose from the grave on that day)? Paul wrote “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.” Colossians 2:16-17. If you are a doctor and are busy healing people from sundown Friday through sundown Saturday, or even on Sunday, are you going against God? If you work in a restaurant and feed people on the Sabbath or on Sunday, should you change jobs? Everyone needs to have a day of rest and if you are Jewish you should pay attention to the Sabbath. Christians look to Jesus, the Creator of all things, for our example of rest. Don’t get tangled up in works by setting rules as to what you do on a certain day of the week, but do take one day to rest. Turn off the alarm clock, spend time with your family, and relax. Are you breaking God’s Law if you work on the Sabbath or on Sunday? Jesus (the Author of the Law given to Moses) did “work” on the Sabbath. Following Christ’s example we can harvest grain, prepare meals, and heal people on any day, but we need a day to rest.

      Still the question is when do we worship? The answer is every hour of every day. “Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.” Philippians 4:4. Assemble together often with fellow believers and encourage each other to walk in the ways of the Lord. Take a day and rest, but praise and worship Him always.

      • Joshua Ephriam says:

        As is often the case when trying to provide biblical proof that we do not need to keep the law, you excluded the next verse in Acts because if contradicts you belief. Don’t get me wrong I am not claiming this as intentional on your part, only that so many are blind to the proper context.
        Acts 15:21 (ESV)

        21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”

        What James was explaining is simply that they don’t need to be in obedience to God to be saved. However, they will learn the rest every Sabbath as they listen to the teachings of Moses (the Law). He was saying that God is patient, and we shouldn’t push them to fast. They will lean as they go and if they love God they will obey as they learn. So in reality Peters and James word don’t bring into question the law and weather we as Christians should obey it. Their words only show that the Law is not salvation. But after salvation we have this.

        Hebrews 10:26–29 (ESV)
        26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?

        And this.

        Philippians 2:12 (ESV)

        12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,

        This is to say as you have always obeyed continue to obey, that is how you work out your salvation.

        and since you brought up Paul

        Romans 3:31 (ESV)
        31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

        In short you will not find any clear and concise statements like this in opposition to the Law. All the verses you have quoted as well as all the others used to make this claim are simply stretched so thin they break or are just taken out of context.

        As a Christian it is all to easy to get caught up in the idea of following Christ, but do we really care what that looks like? We often stumble on the stone, clinging to our traditions and the doctrines of men wile dreaming up circular theologies to excuse us from the clear instruction found in Gods Word. We take dreams recorded in Gods Word and call them literal then excuse ourselves from clear and concise statements of the red letter variety as metaphorical. In truth we are just comfortable with our ways of worship, our salvation, our traditions and our routines. We remain blind out of selfishness and pride, we become angry, bitter and defensive when our normalcy bias is challenged. Lets face it, were willfully ignorant, comfortable in our believes and don’t like to be be wrong. We don’t want to find new truth in God’s Word because we don’t want to be compelled to make change in our lives. If you love God then become uncomfortable, search out his truth and challenge all of your believes against his Word. First a word of caution, do not take this lightly, when you find truth, God will expect you live out that truth in your life and for some it might be better for them to remain blind. I hope to see the body of Christ preform a self audit before God starts his own audit, Its past due call it a new or a re-reformation if you like, whatever you call it it is long overdue. God calls and reveals according to his own will, if you are not called to completely sacrifice yourself and follow Christ in all things, than don’t keep digging.

      • Joshua Ephriam says:

        Almost forgot this one. Apparently the Dragon has not concern for people who hold the testimony of Jesus but don’t keep the commands of God.

        Revelation 12:17 (ESV)
        17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

        Matthew 7:21–27 (ESV)

        I Never Knew You
        21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

        Build Your House on the Rock
        24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”

        I hope you are right and this is not you my friend. In continuing what I have heard Christians repeat many times. If I am wrong I lost nothing, If you are wrong…

        • JT says:

          Joshua,

          I want to thank you, John, and look2thesky for your posts. One of the many questions I have is how do you know you’re called or not called. It’s something I hear of a lot, and that Christ’s sheep answer His call. Doesn’t that mean that once we become His sheep we know His calling, or does it mean that unless He calls us, we will not become His sheep? I ask this in response to your “God calls and reveals according to his own will, if you are not called to completely sacrifice yourself and follow Christ in all things, than don’t keep digging.”. If we seek to be a child of God then are we not all called to sacrifice ourselves to Him?
          I totally agree with you on the concept of so many Christians(including myself) that have such a hard time with giving up, and changing traditions, and doctrines of men that have been taught to me since childhood. This is a process I’m working on, and struggling with. I am continuously seeking for the truth, and do not want to be one of the ones that the devil has no concern for. That brings me to the practical question of how am I to keep His commands of the Sabbath? Do I only do work that honors Him on that day, do I not work at all, do I not help anyone at all on that day etc.? Christ obviously did do “work” on the Sabbath, so where is it that we draw the line? My time is short, and can’t go into the rest of my questions yet, but I thank you in advance for your time, and look forward to your response.

          • Joshua Ephriam says:

            It is God that makes the Call, Christ has an auto dialer. Many are called many times. Unfortunately many don’t answer the call, or they answer the first call and ignore the follow-ups.

            Matthew 22:14 (ESV)
            14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”
            2 Timothy 1:9 (ESV)
            9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
            John 6:44 (ESV)
            44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
            1 Corinthians 1:26 (ESV)
            26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth.
            Romans 8:28–29 (ESV)
            28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

            He calls us to be conformed to the image of his son. This means we should stand out like he did in our thoughts and actions. If Christ observed the Sabbath we should observe the Sabbath.
            Once God has Called you, you know his number. You can chose to delete it from you caller Id, save it as a contact or save it in your favorites. Once you have his number you may want to call him back for specific guidance.

            Jeremiah 33:3 (ESV)
            3 Call to me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known.

            Most will call God to confirm what they want to believe rather than what God wants them to hear. I imagine the conversation going something like this:

            Caller: Father Give me the words, that I might show these foolish HRM adherents your truth and how you laws have been made obsolete.

            God: well slow down son, Have you considered….. Caller: Great thanks God! I’ll go tell them.

            Most condemn the view that opposes them without consideration. They seem unwilling and blind to even explore the possibility that they don’t already have all the answers or that they may be mistaken in some areas. The try to marginalize their opposition by calling the HRM, cults or other things in an attempt to dismiss the competition as crazy without ever having to make the argument or explore the facts themselves. We see a similar tactic used against Cris by people calling him a “conspiracy theorist”. These tactics are used by people to discredit their opposition and dismiss the argument without any valid debate.

            So how do you know if you are called? Do you love God? Do you feel compelled to know him more and to be conformed to the image of Christ? If so it is up to you to answer the call and to return the call but don’t worry if you follow him he will walk with you and lift you up as you learn.

            To answer your question “how do you keep the Sabbath”:

            Exodus 20:8–11 (ESV)
            8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

            So how do we respond to the first part of the commandment, how do we Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy? Remembering it simply requires us to recognize that God made a special day for us and to reflect on that fact on the Sabbath day. Easy right? Now then, how do we keep it holy? We in short the work Holy means, set apart and pure. We are called to set the day God chose apart from the other days in our week. This can be done in many different ways. I myself chose to set aside more than usual time for Bible reading, prayer and/or service to others, family, etc. Easy Right?

            Lets move on the more challenging aspect, “work”.
            Christ didn’t abolish this law he gave us a better understanding of the law and of what “work” is.

            Matthew 5:17–20 (ESV)
            17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

            Mark 3:4 (ESV)
            4 And he said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do harm, to save life or to kill?” But they were silent.

            Luke 6:6–11 (ESV)
            6 On another Sabbath, he entered the synagogue and was teaching, and a man was there whose right hand was withered. 7 And the scribes and the Pharisees watched him, to see whether he would heal on the Sabbath, so that they might find a reason to accuse him. 8 But he knew their thoughts, and he said to the man with the withered hand, “Come and stand here.” And he rose and stood there. 9 And Jesus said to them, “I ask you, is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do harm, to save life or to destroy it?” 10 And after looking around at them all he said to him, “Stretch out your hand.” And he did so, and his hand was restored. 11 But they were filled with fury and discussed with one another what they might do to Jesus.

            Matthew 12:11–12 (ESV)
            11 He said to them, “Which one of you who has a sheep, if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

            So we can see that it is always Gods will that we do good even on the Sabbath and even if it looks like work. We should by all means avoid work for money or other selfish gain on the Sabbath. Does that mean we can’t be paid for working at our job on the Sabbath, by no means. We should try to avoid this altogether, but If you do decide to work on the Sabbath you better check your heart and insure that you are not doing it for you own gain, because If you are, you will be sinning against God. You can be a Doctor for selfish gain and to feed your god complex or you can do it because you love people and want to help them and honor God. If you go to work on Sabbath and cant completely separate the difference in your heart, then I would suggest you give away all your earnings for that day in addition to what you might normally give to God or charity. Keeping in mind that even in your giving your heart must be checked. You would then need to find a more creative way to set this day apart (holy) from the rest of your week.

            I hope this is making sense.

            Regards,

          • Joshua Ephriam says:

            JT,

            Thanks for your encouragement, I’m just being Myself 😉 Keep looking and he will show you what he wants you to know.

          • John Esquivel says:

            (“how am I to keep His commands of the Sabbath? Do I only do work that honors Him on that day, do I not work at all, do I not help anyone at all on that day etc.? Christ obviously did do “work” on the Sabbath, so where is it that we draw the line? My time is short, and can’t go into the rest of my questions yet, but I thank you in advance for your time, and look forward to your response.”)

            We must be humble towards God, praying and asking for his help how to observe his appointed Sabbath rest (starts Friday sunset to Saturday sunset) (Gen. 2:2-3) (Exo 20:8-11)

            Sabbath rest simply means that you do not pursue business for financial & personal gains (like money, trading, home maintenance & worldly pleasures alike), instead pursue business that will increase your spiritual needs and others just like what Jesus did (helping needy people, attend a Sabbath service, sharing the gospel, meditating on the Words of God etc)

            Sunday or other worship day is a bondage to the world but the seventh-day Sabbath is freedom from the world. It is really hard at first but once you get used to it, you will realize that you’ve been freed from the shackles of false teachings and man-made traditions

  9. John Esquivel says:

    1: Can you provide book/chapter/verse from scripture that Jesus/God specifically commanded the NT believers to start worshiping on the first day of the week (also known as Sunday) and no longer on seventh-day Sabbath

    2: Can you provide book/chapter/verse from scripture that says God specifically abolished the seventh-day Sabbath day

    3. Can you provide book/chapter/verse from scripture that says the seventh-day Sabbath is for Jews only as opposed to what Jesus said in Mark 2:27

    Please no assumption, only plain scriptural basis

    • look2thesky says:

      I seriously doubt anyone will be able to answer your questions John –
      As you know, there is no Scriptural teaching that nullifies the 4th commandment, and of course Christ didn’t teach that nonsense either- He was constantly pointing to the commandments as the standard of “the Kingdom –
      “The obsolete Mosaic covenant” as Mr. Putnam erroneously puts it wasn’t “done away with” but was “renewed” with the finished work of Christ – No more innocent blood was necessary as He paid the “ransom” in full –
      The “old and “new” testament division is yet another foolish “christian” delusion – Marcion from the late first century was one of the first and most forceful proponents of that rubbish and it’s held it’s grip and unfortunately grown ever since –
      El Elyon hasn’t and doesn’t change –
      I’ve gotten to the point where I’ll follow the teachings and “shake the dust” from my sandals as testimony against those who refuse to seek so as to find – If they would only “ask and keep on asking” – “seek and keep on seeking” – “knock and keep on knocking” as the Teacher teaches they would be shown the truth – but as it is – they prefer “the teachings of men” to their detriment –

      Take care – and don’t waste time with those who choose to stop up their ears and those who choose to follow the blind –

      • Joshua Ephriam says:

        Says it all. If they don’t want to get it they never will.

        Hebrews 10:26–29 (ESV)
        26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?

  10. Actually some theologians believe that Esubius the fourth century Church Historian added (interpolated) to writings of earlier Christian authors to suit Emperor Constantine the Great’s agenda of worshipping the Sol Invictus sun god agenda. All gospel accounts in the original accounts show our Savior was raised on mia twn sabbatwn” in the original Koine Greek.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      William Priebe — anyone can make assertions without evidence, can you provide evidence for yours? Which Gospels manuscripts are you referring to?

      • Joshua Ephriam says:

        Although the manuscripts exist one must not provide them as proof of a Saturday resurrection. Not even our modern translations claim Christ rose on a Sunday. They only claim that the tome was empty Sunday morning. In Matthew 28:1–6 we see the only account of the actual Resurrection event which happen “In the end of the Sabbath” some translations may read different but the word means this

        4067 ὀψέ (opse): adv.; ≡ Str 3796—1. LN 67.76 late in the day, normally after sunset, but before night (Mk 11:19+); 2. LN 67.197 evening, a segment of a time period (Mk 13:35+); 3. LN 67.51 after, a time implying lateness (Mt 28:1+)

        Point is the Bible never says that Christ rose on Sunday, at best it says the tome was found already empty on Sunday. Anyone can assert that Christ rose on Sunday but I would like to see the evidence.

        In the NIV Mark 16 you can read it right in the cliff notes.
        [The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.]
        In Mark 16:9 the word rose is actually past thence, he had risen already when they met him early on the first day of the week which would have been what we call Saturday about an hour after sundown. So it is irrelevant whether vs 9-20 should be included because they still don’t tell us that Christ rose on Sunday morning. the addition of a comma after the word “risen” would also put this into perspective.

        In Luke 24:1–2 what is translated as “very early in the morning” is a combination of two Greek words
        3986 ὄρθρος (orthros), ου (ou), ὁ (ho): n.masc.; ≡ Str 3722—1. LN 67.187 early morning (Lk 24:1; Ac 5:21+; Jn 8:2 v.r.), for another focus, see next; 2. LN 67.73 daybreak dawn, for verses and another focus, see prior

        This could be translated as Dawn but it really just means the early part of the day and for the Jews the early part of the day on the first day on the week would have been what we call Saturday about an hour after sundown.

        In John 20:1 We see it was still dark. Could it be that it was Saturday night that Christ had risen? Show me otherwise if you wouldn’t mind.

        The contradictions quickly disappear when you let the Bible dictate what you believe rather than reading what you already believe while ignoring the things that don’t agree.

        • Cris Putnam says:

          You have to use the time conventions of first century Jews and the original language texts. Sunday was called the “Lord’s day” but the early church because everyone recognized it as the day of the resurrection.

          “Although the manuscripts exist one must not provide them as proof of a Saturday resurrection.”

          If they exist, then please cite which ones.

          • Joshua Ephriam says:

            Quite clearly the Gospel writers were using the time conventions of first century Jews. That is why we see evidence of this in every gospel account when they say “mia ton sabbaton”. If they weren’t using the Jewish time conventions they would not be counting days from sabbath. In our English translations there are nine times the word “Week” is used in the New Testament. while in the Greek it always reads sabbaton.

            In Matthew 28:1 Mark 16:2–9 Luke 24:1 John 20:1, 19 Acts 20:7 1 Corinthians 16:2

            In each of the above verses the word “day” is entirely added by the translators and the word “Sabbath” is changed to “Week”.

            The literal translation would read more like “one of the Sabbaths” Plural. There were multiple Sabbaths that week. Matthew 28:1 John 19:31

            ”Now these Sabbaths, between the passover and pentecost, were called the first, second, Sabbaths after the second day of the feast of unleavened bread. This Sabbath, then, on which the disciples plucked the ears of corn, was the first Sabbath after that second day. Dr. Lightfoot, has demonstrably proved this to be the meaning of this σαββατονδευτεροπρωτον, (Hor. Hebraic. in locum,) and from him F. Lamy and Dr.Whitby have so explained it.”

            Any day before a High (annual) sabbath (Holy Convocation) day or a weekly sabbath was regarded as a preparation day. Any day before a High (annual) sabbath (Holy Convocation) day or a weekly sabbath within the Passover period was regarded as a preparation day. Jesus died on a Passover preparation day before the high day Sabbath as stated in John 19:31.
            The intermediate days on the Passover period in-between the High days (Holy Convocation Day) and the weekly sabbaths were regarded as secular days, thus allowing time for regular activities such as buying and working (e.g. preparation of spices).
            Thus Mark 16:1 shows when the sabbath (Thursday Nisan 21st) passed the woman prepared spices, and later in Luke 23:56 then rested on the weekly sabbath (Saturday Nisan 23rd) according to the biblical commandment. Here the Gospel biblical evidence indicates that the preparation of spices by the woman occurred on the secular day of Friday Nisan 22nd between the two sabbaths held on separate days.

            Matthew 28:1 is describing details in meaning like ; ‘Late (adverb) [post-after-end] the sabbaths (plural) as it was lighting up (twi-light) on one (cardinal) of the ( partitive genitive ) sabbaths (plural)

            You asked for me to provide the manuscripts that state our Savior rose on the Sabbath. Quite frankly, you already have them because almost every manuscript states this, although most will never see it. If the Gospel writers wanted to say first day of the week they would have used the Greek words that mean “first day of the week”.

            Ascribing to the Friday Sunday folly causes contradictions in scripture that must then be ignored or hidden because they don’t fit your beliefs. A few of these contradictions I have mentioned above and many cannot be reconciled until we move past our Friday Sunday bias.
            Sunday did take on the name “the Lords Day” by the early church depending on what you consider the early Church however, it was not nearly everyone. Actually for the first and second century most Christians held the Sabbath as the day of worship. It was not until the third that Sunday worship became the predominate day and it was still not unanimous as may Christian were martyred for their Sabbath observance.

            1. Socrates Scholasticus. “Church History, Book V”. For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this. The Egyptians in the neighborhood of Alexandria, and the inhabitants of The baïs, hold their religious assemblies on the sabbath, but do not participate of the mysteries in the manner usual among Christians in general: for after having eaten and satisfied themselves with food of all kinds, in the evening making their offerings they partake of the mysteries.

            1. Sozomen. “Ecclesiastical History, Book VII”. Assemblies are not held in all churches on the same time or manner. The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria. There are several cities and villages in Egypt where, contrary to the usage established elsewhere, the people meet together on Sabbath evenings, and, although they have dined previously, partake of the mysteries.

            There still remains no scriptural evidence to change or abolish the 4th commandment, just like the other nine (which no one argues against) it is still in effect. Even if you disagree with my interpretation of the Greek and you hold fast that the resurrection accounts are referring to Sunday, the scripture would only prove that the tomb was found empty on that day. It still wouldn’t show that Christ rose on the day because he was already gone when they arrived.

            With what scriptural authority have we changed the day God hollowed to a different day. If God has made what once was sin no longer sin, than sin would no longer exist and we would have no need for a savior. 1 John 3:4 What God said was sin will always be sin and I’m a sinner but I don’t wish to take my liberty in vain. Romans 3:31

            Thanks for hearing me out, keep up the good fight.

            Regards,

          • Joshua Ephriam says:

            It fascinates me that not a single use of the Greek words for “week “or “day” are found in any of the resurrection accounts, yet somehow we cling to the “first day of the week” translation. If the Gospel writers wanted to say “first day of the week” then surely at least one of them would have used the Greek words that would literally translate as such. After all they held excellent literary skill and divine penmanship.

  11. Richard says:

    Can anyone please interpret/explain these verses to me:

    For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (‭Hebrews‬ ‭4‬:‭3-11‬ KJV)

    • The short and simple interpretation would be as follows:
      God Ordained a day of rest, the Sabbath he called it. He confirmed it more than 3 times. He said that the Israelites obeyed in vain because of their unbelief. He said we should obey and it won’t be in vein because we obey in faith and belief. Then he says that if Christ had ordained another day he would have told us. In place of telling us that he changed the day he tells us that we will be obeying the law through the millennium and beyond. He then tells us that we should work hard to keep the Sabbath rest which will help us from falling into unbelief.

    • Or maybe It just says Christ abolished the 4th command.

  12. Richard says:

    This is my take on this matter. God has rested on the 7th day. The Sabbath as a day was sanctified for the children of israel and is part of the old covenant. The rest in question and the sanctification of this day was there before the moral law (10 commandments). Even that, it does not spiritually nor logically make sense for the Sabbath to be part of the moral law, so it’s not. The Old Covenant is done away with, but the moral is not, however, there is a new way to fulfill this law. The old covenant was just there to point to Christ, to convict human kind of their sin, it has done its job, then Christ came to redeem us and to set us free. We therefore no longer follow the old way of doing things, Christ has fulfilled it.

    Having said that, in the new Covenant the moral law is fulfilled through the act of love (Romans 13:8-10). The New Covenant is all about love. For the whole law is established on this. But if the Sabbath is not part of the moral law what then happens to it? People observe the Sabbath by physically resting, but its not physical rest being referred to. The new Sabbath is found in Christ, He is our new rest, that we should enter into this rest not only on Saturdays or Sundays but everyday of our lives (Mat 11:28). So it is nor longer about days, be it Saturdays or Sundays. Let’s face it, according to the law, Christ has broken the Sabbath several times. But since He came to fulfill it and bring us a new covenant, he is no longer breaking the law because he’s no longer under it. But strictly according to the law he has broken it. You might argue that He is Lord over Sabbath. Truly he is, but when they were plucking corn He was with the 12, are they also Lords over Sabbath. Indeed they are, and so are we. Are we not all followers of Christ? Is the commission in Mathew 28 meant for the 12 only (go yee into the world and preach the gospel)? When they were plucking corn He also gave an example of David, from this example do we see Him disapproving David’s act? Another example is given about the priests, but he said they were blameless.

    The old law is abolished, it has become absolete, it was just a schoolmaster pointing us to Christ. Paul said If righteousness came by the law, then Christ died for nothing. The moral still applies but the Sabbath is not part of the moral. Christ is the new Sabbath rest and an eternal rest, read (Hebrews 4:1-11)

  13. carlo says:

    all this confusion and debate we are just simple folk trying to seek the kingdom of our anointed redimer,what is more important?. The hour we worship our father or how we worship our savior

  14. Bruce says:

    Hebrews chapter 8 – “What is he referring to when he says, “A better covenant?” That is the New Covenant. It is a better covenant than the Old Covenant. Why? Who gave the Old Covenant? God gave it. Did He give a bad covenant? Then where was the problem in the Old Covenant? The secret is found in the word “promise.” In the Old Covenant, who made the promise? God gave the law but the people made the promise. What was the promise? “All that you have said we will do.” In the New Covenant the law is the same. The law in the Old and the New Covenant is not different. The difference is in the promise. What makes the New Covenant better? Not the law but the promise. God gave the law in the Old Covenant but the people made the promise. In the New Covenant God gave the law and God fulfils the promise.

    • Richard says:

      What do you mean the people made the promise? Can you give biblical references to expound more on this. and can you also explain/interpret the last verse of Hebrews 8 verse 13 (In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.), especially the latter part of it.

  15. bruce says:

    Yes! I would be happy to answer your question and thanks for asking – there is a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to the word covenant, most people assume that this is the ten commandments (only) however it simply means an agreement between two parties or more specifically, a contract, or formal agreement, between two or more people. In this case that would be God and the people who accept the conditions. Remember, God kept his end of the agreement however the people failed miserably. Therefore God allowed them to enter the new covenant (agreement) this time with the ‘The Blood of Christ’ as our substitution in moments of failure. In short, the commandments never changed – only the terms of the agreement. thus the new covenant (blood of Christ) The Old has passed away. Yes! We can’t keep the agreement without Jesus (The Blood) we do our best but we sometimes make mistakes, that’s when Jesus and His blood takes effect in the agreement. We must give up the Old for the New. In the better covenant we are cleansed from sin by the blood of Christ. Under the new covenant, the conditions by which eternal life may be gained are the same as under the old—perfect obedience. Under the old covenant, there were many offenses of a daring, presumptuous character, for which there was no atonement specified by law. I have a lesson study on this topic – I hope this helps.

  16. Mika says:

    “Christians began to meet on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7 Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)) because that is the day Jesus rose from the dead.” -Cris Putnam. The verse says that there were lights in the chamber, which means this was night time. The part of the first day of the week that is night-time is what we would call Saturday night. It says that Paul preached until midnight, when Eutychus fell out the window, and died. Paul went down and picked him up, and God resurrected him. Paul then preached another sermon until daybreak, when he started walking to the coast. Spending Sunday walking to the coast is not keeping another holy day. On a different note: who gave the authority to change the day of worship to Sunday in honor of the resurrection? Secondly: why didn’t Jesus use the opportunity to tell the disciples to keep Sunday in honor of Him before he went to the cross? Instead, what does the Bible say? “and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” Luke 22:19 This would have been the perfect opportunity to talk about the “Sunday change” He didn’t! Research – how Mithra Worship affected Christianity and see the Roman revolt against the Jews in 132-135 AD because of their (Sabbath) day of worship. Ironically, it lasted three and a half years, this will be repeated at the very end of time – see Daniel 12. The Bible/Jesus never authorized a change in the Sabbath. No. The devil wants to be rule the world, he wants to be like the Most High. We must always ask ourselves … What does the Bible say?

  17. stephen says:

    If the Sabbath changed am I correct in assuming we then believe in a God whose universal truth changes? If his law is no longer valid then are we to take the laws of God as being relative to a particular point in time and tied to the evolution/condition of man? Is God’s divine wisdom really anchored in anything we do or do not do or understand or anything? This seems to me be an argument for God’s knowledge being relative, relative knowledge is a very mankind concept rooted in evolution. I thought God was divine and above all that?

    I just don’t understand the basis for this change? It’s ramifications are huge people.

    And it is common knowledge the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday – am I to believe we now believe that the validity of what God teaches us is dependent on our evolution because of what men dictated anyway? Is this not humanist? If Jesus died on the cross to free us of the law then am I to understand that the devil in some way had infected the law? Am I to believe that Christ died on the cross to change the nature of God? Is this our God? A God who changes depending on us?

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