Caesars Messiah and Joseph Atwill Debunked

Chris White has a new video ^ and website dedicated to debunking Joseph Atwill’s conspiracy theory. http://caesarsmessiahdebunked.com/

About Cris Putnam
Logos Apologia is the ministry of Cris D. Putnam. The mission of Logos Apologia is to show that logic, science, history and faith are complementary, not contradictory and to bring that life-changing truth to everybody who wants to know.

Comments

  1. ralph ellis says:

    Atwill’s evidence for this is circumstantial. But the gospel events did take place in the late AD 60s, which is why Jesus describes the siege of Jerusalem in Luke 19:43.

    If you want the complete evidence for this, and find out who Jesus really was, you need to read ‘King Jesus’ and ‘Jesus, King of Edessa’.

    • Cris Putnam says:

      Ralph the dating of Paul’s letters in the 50s disproves the claim that the gospel events took place in the late AD 60s. 1 Corinthians can be dated by Paul’s trial appearance in front of the procounsul Gallio and we have inscribed statue proving the date in early 50s. Paul gave details concerning Jesus death and resurrection in that letter. See this: http://www.logosapologia.org/?p=5281

      Thus, Jesus described the siege of Jerusalem because he saw the future in advance – supernatural prophecy.

      • ralph ellis says:

        >>Ralph the dating of Paul’s letters in the 50s disproves the claim
        >>that the gospel events took place in the late AD 60s.

        No they do not. The gospel events and crucifixion happened AFTER Saul’s missionary tours, not before.

        Why do you think that Saul never mentions a proper crucifixion narrative? All we have are one or two one-word mistranslations and interpolations by Saul about a possible crucifixion, but no great speech saying what happened. Why? Because it had not happened at that time.

        The crucifixion happened in AD 70, after the fall of Jerusalem. Josephus records that the three leaders of the Jewish Revolt were crucified in the Kidron valley in AD 70. But Joseph(us) saw them and asked the governor for them to be taken down. Two died, while one survived.

        And the leader of the Revolt was called King Izas the Nazarene, who was the unacknowledged king of Judaea.
        Familiar story? You bet….
        (All taken from Josephus Flavius’ ‘Jewish War’.)

        Ralph

        • Cris Putnam says:

          Ralph anyone can come along and make unsubstantiated claims as you have done. You are misinformed.

          Why do you think that Saul never mentions a proper crucifixion narrative?

          This is a fallacious argument from silence at best, but Paul does mention Jesus death and resurrection repeatedly. When Saul was hunting the Christians in Acts it was because they were preaching the resurrection! Even non-Christian skeptical scholars date 1 Corinthians to AD 55 because we have archeological confirmation and it has a very explicit account of the crucifixion and resurrection in 1 Cor 15:3-7. Most scholars date that creed to around AD 35 right after Jesus death and resurrection. The evidence and linguistic evidence are documented in my video here.



          • ralph ellis says:

            1Cor 15:3-7

            Sorry to disappoint you Cris, but this is an initiation ceremony. It is a masonic 3rd degree raising, exactly the same as the Raising of Lazarus.

            I too have ‘died and been raised’ in exactly the same fashion at my lodge. Are you saying I have really been crucified and really died?

            Unfortunately you have been tricked by Saul, who was never initiated (because they did not trust him), so he took the details of the 3rd degree initiation that he had heard about and exaggerated them.

            And you will probably recoil in horror and say ‘Jesus was not a Mason’. Wrong again, I’m afraid. The title ‘tekton’ that the Church interprets as ‘carpenter’ is actually the Greek for ‘Freemason’. Look it up.

            See the book: ‘King Jesus’.

            R

          • Cris Putnam says:

            Again anyone can make wild unsubstantiated claims without evidence. I presented you with archeological evidence in the form of a first century Roman statue with dates inscribed upon it that corroborates Paul’s trial in the book of Acts and you reply with unsubstantiated conspiracy theories… you aren’t dealing with the evidence.

          • ralph ellis says:

            >>I presented you with archeological evidence in the form of a
            >>first century Roman statue with dates inscribed upon it that
            >>corroborates Paul’s trial in the book of Acts.

            Straw Man argument – I never said that Paul’s evangelical tour and trial did not take place in the AD 50s. In fact, I date his entire first two tours very precisely to the AD 50s.

            But the problem is that the crucifixion had not yet taken place, which is why there is no great weeping and wailing combined with a comprehensive retelling of the tragic execution of the great messiah figure, within Saul’s epistles.

            Much more believably, Josephus Flavius says that the crucifixion took place in AD 70 after the fall of Jerusalem, as I previously noted (above). And this is not a wild unsubstantiated claim, this description is as near to the historical truth as you’re going to get for 1st century events.

            And if you read the NT texts, there are many, many indicators that Josephus’ last-date crucifixion is correct, including:

            Jesus’ description of the siege of Jerusalem suggests a late AD 60s date.
            The deaths of NT’s Zacharias of Barachias and Josephus’ Zacharias of Baruch being the same (in the AD 60s).
            The Talmud claims that Phineas the Robber killed Jesus – the Temple treasurer in AD 70.
            If Mary and Martha of Beothus were the Bethany sisters, as Prof Robert Eiseman suggests, then this would require an AD 60s date.
            The Doctrine of Addai says that King Abgarus wrote letters to Jesus and got a reply. But the governor of Syria in this account is Cassius Longinus, who ruled Syria from AD 41 – 49.
            The Doctrine then goes on to discuss later letters in this same saga, but these were under the Judaean governor Albinus, who ruled from AD 62 – 64
            The Toledoth Yeshu says that Jesus was tried before Queen Helena, not Pontius Pilate, and this would suggest an AD 50s date.
            If the Essene’s Teacher of Righteousness is Jesus, and Eisenmann links the Essene and Roman campaigns – this requires an AD 60s date.

            etc: etc: ( there is much more besides this.)

            You will find many more of the NT events and the NT characters, if you look into the AD 60s.

            Ralph

  2. Jonn says:

    “Again anyone can make wild unsubstantiated claims without evidence”.

    Hypocrisy? You lose all credibility when you assert the resurrection to be factual.

Speak Your Mind