Phantasmic Post Mortem Miracles Count? Seriously Rome?

pope-john-paul-iiPope John Paul II and Pope John XXIII were both made “saints” last Sunday in Rome. One of the requirements is to have performed two miracles which are verified and documented by official church investigators. However in these cases, it seems the standards have been dramatically relaxed. The so called miracles were not actually performed by the men but rather their ghosts.

According to news reports John Paul’s first miracle occured in 2005 shortly after his death. A nun, Sister Marie Simon-Pierre, prayed to the deceased pontiff soon after his death and then recovered from Parkinson’s disease.  Obviously a nun, like Simon-Pierre, devoted to John Paul II was predisposed to credit him for her healing no matter how it occurred.  It’s hardly convincing. His second “miracle” is similarly dubious. Floribeth Mora Diaz claimed the papal apparition appeared to her on the day he was beatified and healed her of an inoperable brain aneurysm. How it was verified that the papal phantasm accomplished either healing is not explained.

Pope Francis by passed the standard qualifications and approved John XXIII’s sainthood with only one so called miracle.  It also allegedly occurred after the Pope’s death.  An Italian nun, Sister Caterina Capitani, prayed to the pope in 1996, who had died three years earlier, and later recovered from a stomach tumor.  Of course, this is again less than impressive.

Such conditions go into remission all the time and there is simply no way to prove that the ghost of either pope is responsible.  Worse yet this is idolatrous sin of the worst kind. Prayer is an act of worship. Praying to deceased humans is idolatrous and necromantic. It is called an abomination in scripture (Deuteronomy 18:11).  In my new book The Supernatural Worldview, I explain in detail why it is not wise to attempt such ill-advised communication with dead, despite the anti-biblical proclamations of Rome.

About Cris Putnam
Logos Apologia is the ministry of Cris D. Putnam. The mission of Logos Apologia is to show that logic, science, history and faith are complementary, not contradictory and to bring that life-changing truth to everybody who wants to know.

Comments

  1. Robbin Hunter says:

    Can’t fill the pews, without believers…

  2. Paul says:

    The weird thing is that this is exactly what people want. If one points out the truth about these practices, ears are shut to it. The other day a Catholic took violent exception to my explaining what the Church of Rome is, responding by denigrating the Protestant canon. I remarked (calmly) that even in the Douay-Rheims Bible, one can see plainly that the Church of Rome is aberrant. He then ended the conversation swiftly and permanently. He didn’t want to hear the simple, obvious truth. The Catholic system appeals to the flesh and to those who love a lie. And even though it’s dark and false, people like it; costumes, ceremonials, worthless piety, pomp and circumstance — they want their religion dispensed to them by professional religious men (or women) on a Sunday morning (or whenever they choose), and then to forget about God for the rest of the week so that they can live carnally. Israel did the same thing, since both Jew and Gentile have the same idolatrous desires.

    Cris, you omitted to mention the best bit of the ceremony — the relics. You’re surely well acquainted with the passage in the Bible where it says that if one is to become a saint, one has to have bits of one’s corpse fiddled around with post mortem in public by a man in a funny outfit. ;) (It’s interesting how Rome’s priesthood appears in many respects to be the diametric opposite of the priesthood God established in Israel — for instance, with regard to the whole relic-thing, one thinks of Scriptures such as Leviticus 21:1, Leviticus 21:11, Numbers 6:6, Numbers 19:11 and Isaiah 52:11. Indeed, Rome’s practice of putting relics inside altars — wilfully concealing an unclean thing inside something supposed to be sacred — appears to be a deliberate attempt at defilement.)

    Some people have ‘prophesied’ a great End Time harvest of souls coming out of these churches. I don’t see that at all — either in Scripture or when I look around at the world. I read of (and observe) apostasy increasing, with more being sucked into this false system, until The Lord calls time on it all and destroys the abomination.

    • Deirdre says:

      Well said. However, Protestant “churches’ are just as sensual and just as confused as their mother church-the RCC.

      “Come out of her My people!”

      • jaz says:

        exactly!…. Mother loves daughters

        My people = the remnant. Only these can hear the call!………..

      • Paul says:

        @Deirdre

        Well said. However, Protestant “churches’ are just as sensual and just as confused as their mother church-the RCC.

        “Come out of her My people!”

        Exactly.

        In many cases, the little Protestant ‘whore-lets’ are even more ghastly than the great Roman ‘mother-whore’: for instance, many Anglican bishops quite openly reject Biblical doctrines which Rome actually upholds (denying, for example, the virgin birth — a denial which even Rome would regard as beyond the pale).

        The sad thing is that even the non-apostate churches which have generally retained a high view of Scripture are in recent decades becoming ever more worldly too (whether one looks at Evangelicals or Pentecostals). It seems that the remnant is shrinking all the time, at least in the West.

        Come quickly, Lord Jesus!

        • Mary Louise says:

          Paul, you appear to worship a book. As a Catholic, I worship Christ.

          • Joseph D'Hippolito says:

            Mary Louise, it’s not a matter of “worshipping a book.” It’s a matter of defining where revelation lies. With Protestants, it lies in Scripture. With Catholics, it’s Scripture and “Tradition,” which really isn’t defined because if it could be defined, then the Magisterium could not engage in arbitrary revisionism — as in the case of capital punishment for murder. The Catholic Church’s abolitionist stance — which reflects neither Scripture, nor the teaching of such Doctors as Aquinas and Augustine — comes directly from Pope John Paul II:

            http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=1463

            I was raised as a Catholic, attended CCD and a Catholic high school and worshipped as a Catholic for most of my life. I left the Catholic Church because has no moral credibility. This goes beyond the clerical sex-abuse crisis. This goes to the Church’s appeasement of Islam, JPII’s arbitrary revisionism concerning capital punishment and the refusal of ecclesiastical leaders to take their own teachings seriously!

            This happened at least once before in history: in first-century Judea, where the Pharisees, Saducees and the Sanhedrin constituted the religious establishment. You know what Christ said about them. What do you think He will say to a church — any church — that long ago sacrificed its spiritual patrimony on the altar of wealth, power, prestige, secular influence, monarchistic trappings and institutional entitlement?

          • Tony says:

            The problem is as a Catholic you worship a false Christ. One not capable of salvation.
            A false work based system. A false church leader, fake sacrificial offerings in the form of a
            false symbolic representation of Christ. Maybe you should read the bible and get to know the real Christ.
            Good luck… Those catholic bonds are hard to break without the true all sufficient Christ.

        • Deirdre says:

          Agree ghastly indeed!

        • Deirdre says:

          What you say Paul is almost ‘there’. All ‘churches’ are apostate! Every single one of them adhere to some bit of RCC. Even some of these home churches, still celebrate the pagan holidays of xmas and eostre, Sunday worship and tithing. All by the letter do they proceed!

          We worship FATHER in Spirit and in Truth. We obey whatever He commands us to do.

          The parable of the mustard seed/tree. It became so fat that the ‘birds’ settled in its branches. We were taught this was the church; that it would take over the world. Yes, the FALSE church. The leaven is squeezing in on every side and only a REMNANT will be left. Those who follow the commands of the FATHER and come out of ‘her’ will make it.

          I encourage you to step out of your ‘church’ for at least a month and study the Bible. Pray, fast, seek the LORD will all your heart. Time is very short now. The flood of lies has been here too long and most drown in the wine of her lies.

          I’ll be praying for you! (-:

          Peace,
          Deirdre

    • Mary Louise says:

      Paul, you appear to worship a book. As a Catholic, I worship Christ.

      • Paul says:

        @Mary Louise

        Paul, you appear to worship a book. As a Catholic, I worship Christ.

        I can assure you, Mary, that I don’t “worship a book”! I do love the Bible, though, since it is the Word of God.

        And when you say that you worship Christ, I would ask you whether you are sure that you actually know Christ. …And if so, by what means do you know Him? Through prayerful consideration of Scripture? Or through the teachings of the Church of Rome? And furthermore, how do you know that your worship is acceptable to God? Through what God states in His Word? …Or what Rome states in its catechism?

        I don’t ask these things to catch you out: they’re genuine questions I’d love you to consider (regardless of whether you reply to this or not). I myself for many years used to be high church, loved the traditions and history — even worshipped in a famous old cathedral. I was a pious chap. But I didn’t truly believe the Bible and I didn’t truly know Christ. Jesus Christ — God Himself — is known through His Word, and it is the latter which tells us what false doctrine is and what true doctrine is. …And what is true worship and what is not.

        I hope that you, too, dear Mary, will come truly to know and to love the Word of God, and thereby to truly know and love its Author. And now I’m going to go and pray for you.

        I wish you well.

        Paul.

  3. jaz says:

    Cris said, (Praying to deceased humans is idolatrous and necromantic). Amen to that.

    The Catholic doctrine of the ‘communion of the saints’ is an integral part of their belief system/theology.
    Such is the Mary devotion and this Pope was no foreigner to this idolatry.

    • Joseph D'Hippolito says:

      The “communion of the saints” (canonized and otherwise) does include those who have died in Christ. So, technically speaking, invoking the dead saints as intercessors isn’t idolatrous, since Catholics don’t consider the dead saints to be divine. The problem isn’t idolatry but misconceptions about the nature of community and the nature of intercessory prayer, and the Catholic failure to view Jesus as a compassionate intercessor for those who have embraced Him.

      There’s a difference between “communion” and “community.” Let me illustrate: Suppose any of you have to move so far from your current home that you can’t go to the church you currently attend. You find another church in your new home. You are technically in communion with those you left behind but you’re not in their community, and I don’t mean that in a geographic sense but in a personal sense. The same thing is true with the departed saints. They are in communion with us but they cannot be in our community, nor we in theirs, in any meaningful sense.

      Besides, intercessory prayer is a way for Christians on Earth to support and care for each other. That demands a physical presence that the dead cannot provide. Moreover, many Catholics believe they’re not good enough to go to Christ on their own; that’s why they invoke Mary or canonized saints. They view Mary and those saints as better able to communicate with Jesus because they’re already in Heaven. That thinking contradicts the principles found in the Letter to the Hebrews:

      1) While we are not worthy in and of ourselves, Christ made us worthy through His crucifixion.
      2) Christ’s crucifixion and resurrection qualify Him to be the ultimate high priest who wants us to come to His Father’s Throne Room of Grace personally.

      If Christ knows me far more intimately than I know myself, loves me far more deeply than I can understand and *wants* to intercede for me, then why do I need supernatural intercession from Mary or the departed saints?

  4. Mary Louise says:

    I never refer to Protestants as Christians, they are heretics. Only the Catholic Faith is true.

    • Sean H says:

      @ Mary Loise
      Why are Christians Heretics?

      • Mary Louise says:

        Sean, only Catholics are Christians

        • Sean H says:

          I apologize I should have worded the question better. Why are protestants Heretics?

          • Joseph D'Hippolito says:

            Sean H., Protestants are heretics because they reject Catholicism. Eastern Orthodox Christians also would be heretics, in Mary Louise’s view, for the same reason. It’s circular reasoning.

  5. Mary Louise says:

    Cris, you should thank God for the Catholic Church. You’ve managed to handsomely line your pockets by calumniating Her. Just think, if the Church didn’t exist, you’d have to make an honest living.

    • Sean H. says:

      Mary Louise
      Do you know Cris personally? Have you received his financial statements? Were you able to get documentation on his revenues from book sales? You stated he is rich so you must have some intel.

      • Mary Louise says:

        He brings out the cynic in me. Even supposing he’s sincere; he’s sincerely in error.

        • Sean H says:

          So instead of giving over to the “cynic in you” should you not pray that God would fill him with the wisdom and knowledge of God accordig to Colossians 1:9?

        • jaz says:

          I suppose that the Roman Church erred not when she tortured and murdered and butchered what she judged to be the heretics for the 600 years of inquisition (the Great whore reeks of Blood) Rev18:24
          Nothing cynical here but Historical facts…

          • hopeful_watcher says:

            Christ himself was crucified by those who thought Him a heretic. Better to be humble and obedient and be considered a heretic then to mingle with the pious and only receive earthly rewards

          • Joseph D'Hippolito says:

            jaz, it’s also a historical fact that Protestants (notably Cromwell) tortured, murdered and butchered whom they believed to be heretics– not just Catholics but Anabaptists, as well. That’s what happens when Christian churches either allow themselves to be co-opted by the State, or seek to be the State.

          • jaz says:

            Hi joseph; I agree, all of the same spirit of whorish religion… Mystery Babylon always works with the State regardless of the theological flavour.. Blood seems to be the insatiable appetite….

  6. Deirdre says:

    Ahhh the language of the Dragon! It gets one….no where….

    FATHER I pray in JESUS name that just as You set me free from all doctrine and dogma, dialectic and deception and continue to set me free, that You would offer the same great grace to Mary. Apart from Your grace, we can do no good thing or Know anything. FATHER Your mercy is great. Your gift of faith is very great. Please give this to Mary. Please wash away all the dragonspeak and catechism she has learned since a babe and set her free, that she may be born again into Your kingdom. Amen.

    • Joseph D'Hippolito says:

      Deirdre, if this commenting format had a “thumbs-up” option like Facebook, I would give your prayer one. :)

  7. Charles says:

    I would like to make a comment on the New Testament. Christians believe that salvation was revealed by God through Jesus Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit. The New Testament was compiled by the Catholic Church in the 4th century AD. At that time there was no Eastern Orthodox Tradition, or Protestant Tradition. Christendom in its essence was catholic – or universal. The following article refers to the New Testament that I copied and pasted from Wikipedia. The canon of the New Testament is the collection of books that most Christians regard as divinely inspired and constituting the New Testament of the Christian Biblical Canon.
    In the period extending roughly from AD 50 to 150, a number of documents began to circulate among the churches, including epistles, gospel accounts, memoirs, prophecies, homilies, and collections of teachings. While some of these documents were apostolic in origin, others drew upon the tradition the apostles and ministers of the word had utilized in their individual missions. Still others represented a summation of the teaching entrusted to a particular church center. Several of these writings sought to extend, interpret, and apply apostolic teaching to meet the needs of Christians in a given locality.

    In general, among Christian denominations, the New Testament canon is an agreed-upon list of 27 books, although book order can vary. The book order is the same in the Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Protestant tradition. The Slavonic, Armenian and Ethiopian traditions have different New Testament book orders. And a great verse from the New Testament – John 3:16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. God Bless…

    • Sean H. says:

      Charles,
      I once came to that conclusion to that the Roman Catholic church not only gave us our modern Bible but our order of worship as well. However when I reviewed history and guided by the hand of God I came to realize that the Roman church did not always hold supreme power. There were other churches in existence that operated along side the Roman church. What the Council ratified as scripture in the 4th century was what all the churches believed even prior to the council. Basically the council ratified what was already common knowledge by all the churches. I don’t think the Roman Catholic church has any authority over the compliation of scripture especially since they don’t believe in its literal interpretation.

  8. Yarply Twelve says:

    familiar spirits producing false signs and lying wonders for those who perish

  9. James says:

    I will be polite. Most Catholics I have ever known are like Lemmings. I graduated from a Catholic College, and they are still reeling from the past and the Biblical ignorance imposed upon the masses. Tyndale had it right to paraphrase him “So that every Plowboy in England, can read the Bible” That doesn’t say it takes a brain surgeon. It’s not much different than the Hindus thinking washing in the Ganges will wash away their sins!!! I wish I had a dollar for every Catholic’s answer to me… I’m Catholic..I’m Catholic…nothing else matters…Debate all you want the Gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 If I believe the Bible and the definition of words, then I don’t have to die to be declared a Saint..The Lord made me one the day I Believed and the Holy Spirit took up residence. The Bible doesn’t speak very well of Religion, it’s a Relationship!!!!

    • James says:

      William Tyndale…”I defy the Pope, and all his laws; and if God spares my life, ere many years, I will cause the boy that driveth the plow to know more of the Scriptures than thou dost”. The Bema Seat Judgment is coming for Believers. William Tyndale just might have a few Rewards!!!!

    • Joseph D'Hippolito says:

      James, out of curiosity, which Catholic college did you attend and how long ago?

  10. Tony says:

    The proof that “Catholics” didn’t produce the bible is the fact that Catholicism is diametrically opposed to scripture. If the RCC did “create/write/put together the bible, why do they not follow it? Or read it. Or read from it? Why do they oppose most if the central elements of salvation, then add to it with idolatry and false heretical teachings? Can’t have it both ways.

  11. Glenn says:

    You have created nothing more than a straw man to try and promote your book

    “Pope John Paul II and Pope John XXIII were both made “saints” last Sunday in Rome.”

    They were not made saints as the Church teaches that all those in the Body of Christ are saints, the correct term is “canonized” a term used by the Church recognizing a saint as a friends and servants of God whose holy life has been marked by the exercise of heroic virtue which the Church honors them and ask for their intercession. The Church does not make them gods as many wrongly claim.

    “The so called miracles were not actually performed by the men but rather their ghosts”

    The Catholic Church makes no such claim; this is nothing but a lie on your part.

    “Prayer is an act of worship. Praying to deceased humans is idolatrous and necromantic.”

    Asking someone to pray for them and with them to God is not an act of worship nor is it by definition an act of necromancy as Catholic. The definition of necromancy-conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events and you have not proven that is what the Church teaches about the communion of the saints.

  12. James says:

    I just can’t help it. The Pope just said, “that without “THE” Church, you are not a Christian”? That brings several thoughts. First, What does he mean by “THE”? Second, My bible tells me that once I am “Baptized” by the Holy Spirit into Christ, that I become a member of the Body of Christ, which is his Church during this dispensation of Grace. Again I will paraphrase William Tyndale (full quote above), “that every Plow Boy in England will know more Bible than the Pope”. Once you are baptized you are “THE CHURCH”…Also if it were possible to baptize an Alien like he said earlier in the week, don’t they have to believe the Gospel First (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)? Lord Help Us!!!!

    • Charles says:

      I also read in the news on Monday an article that said: Pope says baptism for all – even Martians. Well, my first thought was, I guess it’s time to “Get that Monkey off their back” And who knows, these guys might just go ahead and give them at the same time, the other sacraments of, Confession, Communion, and top it off with Confirmation…… Who is to say, they won’t get a few to receive Holy Orders…… And what do you bet we might get a green alien Pope someday. He could bless the oils for the sacrament of the sick…… Which at this point I think these folks at the Vatican need it… God Bless You… And God our world…

  13. Jimmy says:

    Replacement Theology…Get’s you to a point were you have no understanding of scripture? Pope will “Recognize Palestine, and Call to End Occupation” The scriptures tell us that the Lord wrote his Name in Jerusalem. They also tell us in several places that He would remove the Jews from the Land for Disobedience, then return them in Unbelief. Can someone please tell me how one can return from World-wide dispersion after going through Hitler’s Hell, and not be a people on the whole, that would look at the Lord, if there is one, and say “If we are your Chosen, choose someone else for awhile”? The day is soon coming where the Lord Jesus will Reign from David’s Throne in Jerusalem. Israel will be the Head of the Nations and no longer the Tail. The Book of Joel speaks about God’s Wrath is poured out on those Nations that want to divide the Land. I believe the Vatican is a Nation by definition? Judgement is on the way!!!!

    • Joseph D'Hippolito says:

      Jimmy, technically speaking, the Vatican City State *is* an independent “nation” (though arguably the world’s smallest). I’m not sure, however, if the word “nation” as defined in Scripture would apply to such a tiny entity, since “nation” usually means ethnic groups or large peoples. Besides, what evidence do you have that this (or any other) Pope would recognize Palestine and call for an end to occupation? I can understand the Vatican trending in that direction but a trend is far different than definitive action.

  14. Jimmy says:

    Joseph, I thought about it after I sent the comments yesterday? I didn’t send the link, but I did give the title to the article. I think if you google, you can find it? It covered a few issues, but basically it was speaking about the Land. I was flipping across cable the other day, and I stopped at the History Channel for a few moments. They had an hour program about the Vatican. I only watched for a few moments, but during that time they did say, “It was the smallest nation on earth”. Joseph, I am pretty sure you are aware of the ramifications of coming against the Lord and His Land?

  15. Jimmy says:

    Can this be true? Is it a precursor of things to come? I hope the link comes through because the article states that the Pope is in favor of RFID Technology? http://govtslaves.info/pope-francis-publicly-supports-rfid-implants/

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